<i>Hynobius tokyoensis</i> egg sacs laid (In the club!!!)

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paris

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found this yesterday while cleaning tanks
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so now what do i do? how should i keep the sacs? what to do about bad eggs inside (remove them?) better at warmer or cooler temps? how long till hatching? do eggs mature at different rates?-i only have 3 where i can see for sure a head/tail region. there are some bad ones in there but also some not bad but so far not cleaved....help!
 
Congrats, Paris! Well, it's a pretty small club, only you and Henk around here, as far as I know, in terms of actual breeding. I don't keep any adults to begin with ;P

What are those, H. nebulosus? They look too thin to be H. tokyoensis....

The eggs will do well in fairly cool water. I wouldn't worry about having a few duds inside as that's usually the case. They mature pretty much at the same rate, in my experience, so the others should be coming along soon.
 
Nicely done Paris! Which species are these? I read in one of Henk's articles about using hyperdermic needles to remove dud eggs (If it wan't Henk it was someone else who bred Hynobids successfully).
At least with dunni, Henk reccomends keeping them in the parentla tank and moving the adults if they start to damage the egg sacks. Generally the adults are too slow to catch larvae once they hatch, but removing adults might be a good idea. Placing the larvae/sacks in fresh water caused mass die-offs. I think the article is one Henk's Moscow website.
Well done again!
Chris
 
tim,
they are H. tokyoensis, these are from those adults i bought about 2 years ago. the adults never got that brown colour the ones in your pictures do.

chris,
well i guess ill pop them back in the parent tank then.

these are just too cool-are they hard larvae/morphs?
 
Paris, I'm used to seeing more beefy egg sacs with H. tokyoensis than that. Still, it does take some time for them to harden up and thicken after being laid. Maybe yours will too, as they still look a bit soft in those pics. Also, they can come in slightly different sizes, and one can pretty much tell which ones in the pond were laid by the younger females, as one can see here:

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Chris, I would think that once the egg sacs are laid, they have nothing else to do with the adults, and vice versa. Also, I've successfully raised lots of hynobiid larvae from egg sacs without having noticed any particular sensitivity to fresh water. The die-offs happen with the egg sac is in bad shape to begin with, when the temperature is too high and when the water quality is bad. I raise them in cycled water siphoned from another tank, and sometimes use fresh water from the tap if it looks like the tank's water is in need of refreshing. Also, I provide a filter or airstone to oxygenate the water. Nothing fancy. H. tokyoensis egg sacs and larvae are both pretty hardy. maybe Henk was referring to some other species/ Was it H. tokyoensis? What one really has to take special care about is when the larvae hatch as they're prone to cannibalism, though not quite as bad as say H. retardatus.
 
Tim - Henk was referring the H. dunni in the article (as I mentioned above). The reason for leaving egg sacks with parents was simply water-quality related, I didn't mean to imply any further parental roles from the adults. Obviously, you are a lot more experienced with hynobius rearing than me (maybe next year...) and I would think that mature tank water would be fine - it was simply the fresh tap water I meant to guard against, not new water in general. THe advantage of leaving the sacks with parents is that the conditions mut be perfect as the adults wouldn't have bred otherwise.
Paris - I would listen more to what Tim has to say as he has a lot more experience - I was just paraphrasing Henk's advice.
 
Paris - any pics of their setup? Where were trhe eggs laid in the tank?
Chris
 
Hai I'm just seeing this post. Congrat's Paris !
Overhere in europe the group has quite grown though : the H. dunni has been reproduced by up to 3 people from the studbook, mysefl not included, so it looks as if it is a good year.
I have eggs of H. quelpartensis, dunni, retardatus and lichenatus (2nd year). The others are still on hold (hear me cursing !).

There are alot of bad eggs in all the species except H. dunni (I have approx 6 deposits , thius 12 sacs). In H. lichenatus I'll be happy to rear about 10 larvae , H; retardatus also 3 deposits , but with lots of bad eggs... hope somethig turns out to go well.
In H. quelpartensis I don't expect anything 4 deposits that are all bad (or almost) I think I will loose all of those.

Now I hope that H. tokyoensis or H. nebulosus still breeds, since they are always breeding when it gets a bit warmer.

I hope you are ablebto rear some out of this eggsacs Paris, would be nivce to hear.

In Germany H; tokyoensis have been bred too, since somebody actually bred with my first ever reared juveniles, so F-2 in this species is already in place.

Well so far the Hynobius story for this year...
 
Hynobius breeding in the US!!! Maybe the first? [Imagine thunderous applause here.]
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dont count your hynobids before they morph.....lets see if i get any out of this
 
The club is growing quickly - I just found a pair of egg sacks in my H.dunni tank! They'd fallen off the twigs, so I didn't notice them through all the algae and leaves etc - I thought it was a salamander curled up in the murk until I touched it. I've left them in the parental tank for now, but all look OK except one embryo which I think is a dud. Its near one end of the sack, so hopefully it won't cause too much damage.
I've set up a separate tank to mature (I know - contradicted my own post above....) and will move the egg sacks across in a couple of weeks, if the adults don't bother them.
Chris
 
Chris be cautious, I would set over the adults instead of the eggs, they don't really stand the change of water well...
So far it looks like a very succesfull H. dunni year with 3 other breeders having bred this species so far.
 
My worry with leaving the eggs in the original tank is that the water area is not very large at all. I'm sure it would not sustain larvae for very long, and I would think that removing all the rocks and then topping up with new water to compensate for the volume of the rocks would be just as harmful. I will leave the egg sacks with the adults until they are about to hatch, then transfer them to the new tank. I would think that, in the cold temps of arund 10C, the eggs will develop slowly, and so the new tank should be very matyre by the time I move the eggs.
Also, the water the eggs were laid was almost 100% fresh (dechlorinated) tap water from the most recent water change.

I will replace some of the new tank's water with water from the adults tank before moving them anyway.

As I said, the water volume is not large in the tank, and its too dark for plantlife to thrive - should I do water changes during the eggs development - there is a large amount of debris in the water (moss etc the animals knock in)?

So far, the eggs are still looking good. I've not counted them yet, but there are lots in each sack.

Thanks
Chris
 
The egg sacks were transferred to the new tank about 2 weeks ago and the larvae are just starting to emerge fromt he jelly...now the greatest feeding challenge of my life begins!
A few of the eggs went wrong somewhere in developement and died. One egg never started developing, but hasn't rotted yet...it seems t be alive but doing nothing, which is odd.
I set up a large tub outside a month ago, and I will decant some larvae into that,and others into the parental tank as they grow. So far the are all in a standard 2ft. aquarium filled just over halfway with an emergent plant in one corner. There is no filtration. How often should I water change - do H. dunni larvae prefer slkightly stagnant conditions, like the adults, or do they do better wiuth more frequent water changes?

Chris
 
I can't really say one way or the other. If you just raise them like you would any other larvae, say Cynops, they should do just fine as they're not delicate. I provide some light sponge filtration for most of my larvae, regardless of the species, except for some that are kept in shallow containers. And I change about a third of their water every few days or so, but it really depends on the state of the water, how it looks to the eye. So basically I don't think there's a single prescription on how to go about it. If you have plenty of larvae to work with, why not experiment with methods and let us know your results?
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