Hongkongensis images

[henk]

 

[richard]

Nice Pics Henk. What program are you using to put borders on and manage your pics? Photoshop?

 

[gord]

Henk:

You take amazing pictures.

My male hongkongensis has similar tail colour, but is way fatter.Perhaps I'm overfeeding!

GE

 

[henk]

Thanks for the compliments on the images, it keeps me going at it (next should be Pachytriton). Regarding the fatness: this is how the animals atrrived from the pettrade, so I would hope they gain weight along the process since now I think they are not 'optimal'. Shortly I don't think you are overfeeding , but I rather think these have not been eating enough . Since males are far more stress sensitive it usually are the skinniest ones too. The females are a bit fatter , but I still need to make good shots of these too.

 

[henk]

And here's what they are so famous for : their quite gentle behavior to co-inhabitants ;-)

 

[TJ]

Nice photos!

There seems to be considerable regional variation in Paramesotriton and probably some new species to emerge from the confusion in the coming years. Your P. hongkongensis seems different in some respects from the P. hongkongensis I've seen in the wild in Hong Kong. Here are some photos of them for comparison:

(2nd and 3rd photos are of same animal)

And then contrast those with some Paramesotriton being sold at a Hong Kong pet shop:

 

[chris]

In their paper describing hongkongensis as a separate species, Myers and Leviton (1962) re-designated the souther population of P. chinensis (in the Kowloon region I believe) as hongkongensis. Looking at the petshop 'hongkongensis' I wonder if they were right to group the southern popuation with hongkongensis; particularly the one on the left hand side with its nose to the glass looks like an intermediate between hongkongensis and chinesis.
I am sure there will be a number of new species in this genus (if someone is brave enough to tackle it!)

Chris

 

[TJ]

Actually, I don't know what the ones in the pet shop were labeled. Most probably not "P. hongkongensis" as that's a protected species in Hong Kong -- though it does sometimes get caught and sold illegally, sadly.

I'm unaware of any significant morphological or genetic differences between the P. hongkongensis on Hong Kong Island and those on the immediate mainland, namely in Hong Kong's well-forested New Territories (beyond Kowloon), and I kinda doubt it. What's the type locality for P. hongkongensis anyway? Anybody have the original description paper? I'd guess one would start to see variation the deeper one gets into Guangdong Province.

There are at least a couple of people looking into Paramesotriton, or who have at least stated their intention to do so...

 

[TJ]

Ah, I see now that the type locality is on Hong Kong Island. Have you got that Myers & Leviton paper you referred to, Chris?

Here's a close-up of the newt you mentioned:

(Message edited by tj on February 21, 2007)

 

[henk]

Well I have to admit I had some question marks first in my head when I got mine. And their bellies seem quite pale too... Currently the female has started setting off eggs (well 3 of them). I will keep you posted with more images
In fact the animals have a type of mysterious underlying orange tone...

Here are some shots of the female
This one was just for the fun of showing ...

Here you see a good headshot

And here's the odd tail color ???

 

[TJ]

Beautiful shots, Henk.

Check out the range map given for P. hongkongensis here:

http://www.globalamphibians.org/servlet/GAA?searchName=Paramesotriton+hongkongensis

 

[henk]

Well Tim , the more I get close to the animals the more sign of P chinensis pop up too ; the pale orange color of the belly, the yellow dots in the arms attaching to the body...
So I may have to change the title ...

Here are some full shots
The (gravid) female

The male (out of breeding color)

Some other shots

 

[chris]

Tim
I do have the Myers and Leviton paper - it is very short and not particularly helpful...the plates are also in black and white. I can scan and email it if you wish, though I'm putting together an article with Rlaf and Juraj, in which I'm summarising all the species descriptions...hopefully it should be finished soon.

 

[TJ]

Hi Chris. Yes, that'd be much appreciated! In return, I could scan and send you the 2003 paper Molecular Phylogeny of the Genus Paramesotriton (Caudata: Salamandridae) (Lu S, Yuan ZG, Pang J, Yang D, Yu F, McGuire P, Xie F, Zhang YP) if you guys don't have it yet. Its findings "indicate that all six species of Paramesotriton formed a monophyletic group, with P. caudopunctatus as basal to the other five species" and that P. fuzhongensis is a valid spoecies of Paramesotriton."

There's also a 1992 paper that sounds like it would be of interest to you but there are two problems: 1) I don't have it, and 2) it's in Chinese. It's titled:

A systematic study on the Chinese newt genus Paramesotriton (Caudata: Salamandridae)

Have you seen the document Amphibians of Hong Kong? There's a nice description of P. hongkongensis there on page 84. It can be downloaded in PDF form from:

http://sunzi1.lib.hku.hk/hkjo/view/34/3400218.pdf

Henk, hmmm, the skin on the one in the 2nd photo of the last series is closer to my image of what a P. hongkongensis should look like, though I didn't see any in the wild in Hong Kong that had those P. chinensis-like yellow dots. Having seen how much morphological variation there is among say C. pyrrhogaster from different parts of Japan, it's not surprising if there's some interesting variation among P. hongkongensis from different parts of southern China (including Hong Kong) too

Still, they could be an intermediate species...

Chris, when you guys do that paper, one thing I'd very much like to see is a comparison among the larvae of different species of Paramesotriton, as there sure are some interesting differences from what I've seen from Paul's pics and elsewhere!

 

[timo]

@ Chris: That sounds very interesting! A paper with all Paramesotriton descriptions and perhaps some kind of a determination key?!?! When will it vaguely be finished?

I know the problems about the short and rarely helpful first descriptions. I’m currently working on Paramesotriton at the Museum Koenig in Bonn.

@ Tim: I’m also searching the Pang et al. (1992) paper… it’s hard to get it! Are you sure it is in Chinese? But the cladograms and an english abstract should still be useful.
Good luck!

If you get it PLEASE write me where

(Message edited by timo_h on February 26, 2007)

 

[TJ]

Hi Timo,

The 2003 molecular phylogeny paper I mentioned above listed the 1992 paper in its references, and as I recall it said "(in Chinese)"

Good luck in finding it, and let me know where if you do!