Question: Home-made meat pap/cubes, are they suitable for newts?

[OZIRIS]

It's known that many fish/shrimp enthusiasts make their own food to feed their animals in a good way.

I was thinking to do the same for newts, would it be suitable? It would be a mix of different meat, chicken,cow, liver, fish,and other items ,brine shrimp,daphnia,bloodworms,vitamin complex. Maybe agar-agar could be added to join all the ingredients. Then freeze.

What do you think about this? has anybody tried?

 

[Azhael]

This very interesting idea has been discussed before. There are a couple of threads about home-made pellets....i certainly intend to give them a try at some point!

I wouldn´t use any vertebrate meat (except perhaps a small amount of whole, small fresh water fish), it´s not natural nor healthy for them.

 

[OZIRIS]

Have you tried it Azhael? or any other?

Maybe vertebrate meat is not ok for them, but I think pellets sold in a pet shop contains that meat meal, even some cereals flour (as all the pellets). Could you write here the composition of the ones you use? or scan the package? it would be interesting.

What about vegetables? do you think a small amount of red pepper (to add carotenes) would be dangerous?

I'm curious about this because my cynops seem to be very interested in the shrimps's pap I have made.

Of course, this type of diet would be used once per week or something like that, because it contains a lot of proteins and it could foul the water.

Regards!

 

[Azhael]

I haven´t tried it yet, but i probably will very soon. You can find an excellent thread made by Johnny, here:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f1173-...iscussion/61861-johnnys-pellets-axolotls.html

The ones i use i know contain a portion of fish flour (the least of all vertebrate evils xD).
I don´t have the exact composition at hand, i´ll try to contact Daniel and see if he can provide me with it.

There is a difference between using whole fish and using mammal meat, though. No caudate is specialized in eating mammals (a few are in eating fish). They digest it poorly and it´s much more caloric than invertebrate meat. It´s very true that some brands of commercial pellets are less than ideal, but the point of making home-made pellets is to make them as good as possible, and for that matter, you want to provide natural, healthy foods, not easily available, but inadequate ones.

I think a good homemade pellet (for newts such as C.orientalis) should contain earthworms, insects and a good portion of crustaceans with the possibility of some fresh-water fish (again, preferably small and whole) as this reflects the natural diet. I don´t see the point of introducing liver and chicken and all that, it certainly is not for their benefit.

Adding pepper will have very little effect on the actual content of carotenes. Vegetable matter has it´s dangers, since they can´t digest it at all. If you wish to provide the right type of carotenes with the mix (which i think is a brilliant idea, and is in fact the main reason why i want to try this) crustaceans are the way to go. You can also add some commercial powder enriched with canthaxanthin and other specific carotenoids.

 

[OZIRIS]

Nice info Azhael.

Please, post a thread or write here if you want, when you try your homemade pap to continue the experiment.

I have just put a bit of mine again in the cynops tank and they were crazy when they smelt it, and they ate it...as that pap is not designed for cynops, i'm not going to use it again in this tank.

 

[Azhael]

I certainly will OZIRIS, don´t you doubt it! xDD
I´ll post the contents of the pellets i use if i get the info, too.

What is the composition of the pap you made?

 

[OZIRIS]

Well, I did it for my snails and shrimps, it contains :

- red pepper
- carrot
- pumpkin
- watercress
- spirulina powder
- dried gammarus
- fish flakes and ground pellet
- small piece of chicken
- vitamin complex

All the ingredients fit in half a glass, quantities are a little. All were beaten and frozen after.

I suppose that chicken or fish flakes smell a lot, by this way it catches cynops attention.

 

[Azhael]

That´s excellent for shrimp but very inadequate for newts, yes.
If you use the right ingredients you can make a very interesting and useful alternative for caudates, let us know if you give it a try.
My mother says if i go near the blender with anything that is not fruit she is going to cut my hands off, so i guess i´ll have to wait to be back in Salamanca xD.

 

[OZIRIS]

That´s excellent for shrimp but very inadequate for newts, yes.
If you use the right ingredients you can make a very interesting and useful alternative for caudates, let us know if you give it a try.
My mother says if i go near the blender with anything that is not fruit she is going to cut my hands off, so i guess i´ll have to wait to be back in Salamanca xD.

Ahahah, mine too. The strangest bugs I used, are the dried gammarus, and she didn't know I added it. If you want to make an "earthworm shake" you'll need a specific blender to do it, of course. Cashconverters have many second hand things, cheap ones, and to use it for animals... it's a very useful shop for weird people like us to do these things.

Perhaps I'll try one pap for cynops, I need to get freshwater fish first, I have trouts in mind.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to see your pellets composition.
Regards

 

[Azhael]

I would use small fish instead of using something like a trout (nutritionally it makes a real difference). Perhaps some of those little fishes that we call "pescaitos" xD I think there is a fresh water species available. Alternatively something like Gambusia would be good too (it´s what i intend to use in small amounts since they infest Salamanca).

PS: I e-mailed Daniel.

 

[OZIRIS]

Gambusias and guppies are easily available in ponds overthere, but it's a pity using them :/ and what about parasites? Freezing should kill all, shouldn't it?

Another point it's to boil or not the ingredients. Surely, a raw pap would be healthy for newts.

I can see nobody, apart from us, has replied, that is strange. Lot's of aquarists use paps, at least in Spain. Don't be shy and share your experience people!.

Regards

 

[Azhael]

Obviously, if you are going to use fish, you have to quarantine them for a month first. That will take care of most parasite problems. The freezing treatment will also help.

Makes no sense to boil food for caudates. I know that in the case of shrimp foods, you have to boil the vegetables ....however that´s because they are vegetables...you need to break them, you need to "decay" them so that the shrimp can eat them.
If you boil the mix for caudate pellets, you´ll throw away the nourrishment, plus they probably will have digestive troubles or even ignore them entirely. You need fresh ingredients, and raw. It´s bad enough you have to freeze them xD

 

[Azhael]

Ok, so i got an answer from Daniel (thanx, Daniel ).
The list of contents is:

- fish flour
- fish oil
- blood flour / haemoglobin flour (differs from manufacturer to manufacturer)
- soy extracts
- vegetable oil

And the nutritional values:

- proteine: 46%
- fat: 16%
- ash: 11%
- fibre: 1%
- phosphorus: 1.6%
- calcium: 2.3%

Now, these are obviously manufactured for fish, and are not ideal for caudates (they are probably very close, if not the same, as salmon pellets). That´s why i´ve never considered pellets to be an acceptable staple, despite the experience of some people. As a part of a healthy, varied diet, they are very handy, though, plus the calcium/phoporus ratio is better than most other common food items.

 

[OZIRIS]

Thanks Azhael, It sounds those pellets are fish food (for farming).

Anyway, these ingredients are difficult to get, maybe we could do something similar to the nutritional values percentages (or better ones) with another items as we said before. But that formula is for growing and growing and growing, and we want the better diet as possible.