Herping for Snakes?

[sean]

Hi. I often like to go salamander hunting in the creek and woods behind my house. Today I decided to take my 4 year old son with me to expose him to nature. So I took him to this rock island in the middle of the creek and was greeted by a large Cottonmouth basking in the sun. So of course we go the other way down the creek to a nice little pebble beach not even 20 ft from where the Cottonmouth was. On the way there as I ducked under a tree limb I saw a small Copperhead sitting in some leaf litter hanging over the creek.After we got past him we explored a small part of the creek until I finaly got very paranoid and took an alternate route out of there. It was a sobering experience being scared out of the woods by snakes,but to me it was alot different having my son there to protect. Anybody out there running in to alot of snakes often? By the way I never keep the Salamanders I find and I try not to disturb the homes. Some sallies I have found before are Slimeys,Two lined,Springs,Marbled,and Spotted. The population is huge. The are tons of larvae in the creeks to.

 

[william]

what snake is that?

 

[sean]

Correct me if I am wrong but that looks like a northern watersnake and the colors are dark and look much like a cottonmouth on first glance. But I usually identify a venomous snake by the shape of their head. And unlike the watersnake the cottonmouths pattern extends into there heads. Hell,I dont even want to get to close to a watersnake,they have a nasty bite and are very aggresive when cornered. I have had one fall into my canoe while tyeing on to a tree branch and lets just say I didnt hang around to study him to see if he was a moccasin or not. As far as the Copperhead,I was about 3feet from him. Close enough to see the pits behind his snout.Copperheads are common down here on the edges of ponds and river banks.Maybe there not so much aquatic as just hunting the banks for frogs. I know of 2 people I work with who were bit by copperheads and say that it feels like hot lava running through your veins. Other than the pain though a Copperheads bite is usually not life threatening,so they dont bother me as much as the Cottonmouth. I guess that Cottonmouths are not as common other places in Georgia but believe me they are common here in middle Georgia. Im not one of those people who think every snake is poisonous and kill it on sight. I usually stand still and study the animal and if it is venomous I quietly walk away.But regardless,I think I will let my son get a little older before I carry him that deep in the woods again. My son is just too young to understand that there are dangerous animals in the woods.BTW,as far as the Slimy salamanders go,I may be wrong,but the species I caught looked very close to what my guide showed. It could be a different species that looks similar. Im definatly no expert in identifying my salamanders.

 

[john]

Nerodia? I thought they were Natrix sipedon.

Or am I showing my age (again)?

 

[edward]

I have a copy of the field guides listing them as Natrix (and a endplate signed by Conant).

Ed

 

[edward]

Hi Mike,
1975 for the Peterson Field Guide to Amphibians and Reptiles of the Eastern and Central United States.
(but then I have been around for awhile...., my copy of the Western Field Guide in the same series is from the fourth printing with a copyright of 1966.....). (I do have more up to date versions but those were my originals).
A quick scan of the data base on herplit makes it look like the change occured somewhere between 1976 and 1979.

Ed

(Message edited by Ed on June 29, 2005)

 

[TJ]

I can easily understand Sean's wariness about venturing into the bush with a tottler to protect (esp. as I've one on the way myself!).

We encountered a total of 5 "Habu" pit vipers (Trimeresurus flavoviridis) during our visit to the Amami Islands earlier this month to observe Cynops ensicauda ensicauda. This is a highly aggressive snake, which can be found both on the ground and in the trees.

 

[ralf]

Very nice pictures of a stunning creature. I think they recently changed the systematic name to Protobothrops flavoviridis.

 

[edward]

Hey Tim,
sounds like congratulations need to be offered to you!

Ed

 

[sean]

Holy <font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font>! If I ran up on one of those bowed up on me like that second pic I would probably set the woods on fire getting out of there.

 

[sean]

LOL! ^ ^ I cant believe that word got censored! It makes it look like I used the S word which I did not.Sorry for the foul language! This is the most kid safe site ever!

 

[TJ]

Thanks, Ed, though it's a wee bit premature for me to be announcing

Still, the idea of taking one's son herping like Sean does (correction: did) is very appealing! Here's a pic of another one, taken by my fearless travel partner:

 

[jason]

Humm actually. Quite reasonable to have seen both a cotton mouth and/or copperhead. Georgia has both the eastern and Florida species of cottonmouths. Also the Juvenile can look very close to a copperhead. In Southern States its not rare to see copperheads hear water, they are close relatives of the cottonmouth, though are not as aquatic. Copperheads are the least of your worries, Cottonmouths tend to be quite aggressive/curious and territorial. And many times i have seen both species sitting on limbs in trees beside the water. And like stated above a few water snakes can look almost identical to the cottonmouth, but its best if you are not quite familiar to leave it alone, An upset cottonmouth is not something you want to deal with, without experience. Carry along a good hook just incase one is to close for comfort.

Its a good thing to be protective of your son, but also gives him a chance to learn and respect nature. My father use to carry me herping for snakes when i was a kid. Guess thats where my fasination with the animals came about.

I will actually be going back to SC in 2-3 weeks to do some more little studies on cottonmouths. They are quite exquisite animals.


Tim nice shots of the T. Flav.

 

[jason]

Sorry Mike didn't see this was an old topic.

Yes i know they are subspecies. I was to busy thinking of copperheads and cottonmouths.

Anyways. Its hard to really say what was seen ext. with out photos i was just making my point to it. Maybe misread some of the stated above.
Though both can be found near water, in trees, and look familiar to one another and to other species, the possibilities of what it could be or couldn't be are endless.

And yes both can be highly aggressive, to a point. But the cottonmouth tends to be more curious is what i was stating. I find them more aggressive than a diamondback but thats just me i guess.

As far as studies, mainly the range of color patterns and hypos.