Help with Newt ID

[LeFarge]

I just bought 5 of these little guys from a local pet shop -

http://www.caudata.org/forum/members/lefarge-albums-mystery-newts.html

they're skinny but active and I'm going to feed them up and see how they do

the shop, which is well-intentioned but not big on fact is selling them as 'French Newts'

They are UK cb (in an outside pond) and are clearly European newts of some kind

I think they are eith Carpathian Newts, Italian Newts or Palmate Newts. I have seen many palmates in the wild here and the males (which most of these are) have clearer markings and a thin tail filament at this time of year (these are 8-10cm so a good year old)

Any expert thoughts very much appreciated

 

[Azhael]

I´d say L.helveticus for sure.
I may be wrong but it was my understanding that although capturing this species is legal in the UK, comercializing them isn´t.
Anyway, i gope you manage to fatten them up, they look like they´ve had a rough experience.

 

[Molch]

"captive bred in an outside pond" sounds very much like someone just fished them out of their garden pond and sold them to the petshop....just saying, it might be worthwhile inquiring into that.

I agree they look like palmate newts. The second one is very emaciated. Do you have food for them? Also, keep them on the cool side, it will reduce their stress level.

Good luck!

 

[philwhit]

very much like t.helviticus...however if they are 10cm long ..they are too big to be palmates

 

[LeFarge]

I use this shop a lot - its a reptile shop, not just a pet shop and they do get a lot of unusual species in -- i've known them have many european newts so I genuinely don't think these are wild caught, they're not that kind of people. Keeping them cool but do you think I am right keeping them on land? they were in water in the shop but didn't seem thrilled to be.

am going to try them on some blood worm first - my aplines, marbleds and ribbed newts love these and take it from there...

 

[will_j]

I would be very wary of any pet shop that sold animals in that condition, looks and sounds to me like they've just been fished out of a garden pond...

As for care, if you have the space in the vivarium, I would offer them a semi-aquatic set-up to start with, gives them the opportunity to be aquatic or terrestrial.

 

[philwhit]

if they are helviticus..and have been wc in the uk recently then they should still be in breeding condition. and looking at the pics they are clearly not

 

[Azhael]

Breeding condition can disappear VERY quickly if the animals are stressed or subjected to inadecuate care. I just wonder if that outdoor vivarium they grew up in had any walls at all. Given the name given to them by the shop, the state of the animals and the reputation of the UK pet-shop market, i would go with Will and Molch and just assume they have been taken from ponds

 

[LeFarge]

well, hopefuly whatever they are and wherever they came from I can get them healthy as they're cute newts, very inquisitive and I'm glad I rescued them from the shop!

 

[philwhit]

yes ..i think you're probably right in that asumption

 

[LeFarge]

Just an update - here's a load more pics -

http://www.caudata.org/forum/members/lefarge-albums-newts.html

I am sure they are Palmate Newts -- though the guy in the shop has since confessed that he thinks they are Palmate/Smooth crosses! They are all eating and pooing machines and two in particular have bulked up a LOT and are looking very healthy... the other three are looking much better but not yet plump!

 

[jane1187]

Just an update - here's a load more pics -

http://www.caudata.org/forum/members/lefarge-albums-newts.html

I am sure they are Palmate Newts -- though the guy in the shop has since confessed that he thinks they are Palmate/Smooth crosses! They are all eating and pooing machines and two in particular have bulked up a LOT and are looking very healthy... the other three are looking much better but not yet plump!

Without a clear shot of the underside of the head, I cannot say for sure they are palmates (helveticus), but the hind feet do tend to suggest it. A pale yellow/pinkish underside to the head is a sure characteristic of palmates.

Also Smooth and palmate newts are VERY unlikely to hybridise. I agree with other members here that it is likely the newts were taken from a pond as they breed readily in UK ponds. Also I couldn't say I'm convinced it's entirely legal to sell native newts.

Oh well they're in your care now so that's good. Take care of them! Good luck.