HELP! URGENT! Injured Axolotl

Bambikill

Bambikill

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I'm sorry - I know there are tons of threads about this but I'm freaking out - I can't concentrate on searching - I might be losing time - I'll read more when I get the immediate situation somewhat solved.

Injured adult Axolotl - she's been tricky with food lately and I've had problems getting her to eat but I thought she seemed pretty ok. Skinny but pretty active and alert.

Now when I opened to feed them - one of the other ones had taken a big bite from one of her front legs - only skeleton remaining - muscle and skin gone from middle part of leg.
This added to her crappy eating lately - makes me seriously think that she won't make it.
She's lethargic and doesn't move much.

What do I do???? Fridge - I have a petbox ready with declorinated water, made room in the fridge and threw in a thermometer to be able to estimate the temp.
What temp is ideal?
Will it affect her adversely to dump her directly into that cold water and fridge??
Will she make it when she is in such half crappy condition already to start with?
What do I feed her - how do I feed her - when do I feed her - how long can she survive without food??
Do I put anything in the water? Antiseptic something, tea, what?

I'm sorry for hysterical outbreak - I'm usually calm in emergency situations but now I freaked completely and am blaming myself really badly right now and bawling... :(

Please, someone help... I can't think straight, I don't know what to do and I can't make sense of what information to search for, I'm so agitated... :(
 
Okay - I put her in the fridge in a small pet carrier with declorinated water (the best I can come up with at the moment, I have to fix something else tomorrow with a proper lid and not a barred one.) I'm checking the temperature constantly since I have no idea how cold my fridge is - so I'm experimenting and trying to get the temperature up a little bit.

However - I don't know if there is an ideal temperature?

I'm worried about the water level and can't decide whether I should keep it high or very low - since I'm unsure of how mobile she is with her front leg trashed. But she should be able to get to the surface to breathe, right? (We're talking perhaps 12-15 cm of water. At the moment it's lower since I don't know what to do. Perhaps 8 cm.)
There is slight mobility to the limb - perhaps because the leg seems intact from torso to half way down to the joint.

Declorinated water is stocked in the fridge and the pet box is covered with a towel.

I tried to read a little bit here and there about injuries and how to handle a sick/injured Axolotl, but I would still appreciate advice based on this particular situation.

I have no idea whether I should salt bathe her or perhaps add tea or perhaps some antibacterial thing or something... there doesn't seem to be any fungus - the injury is fresh from today or last night.

I have a good clue about what vets we have in the area since I have worked at a clinic and know many vets. There are no reptilian/amphibian knowledgeable vets within at least a radius of 60 kilometres. I think the people here on the forum have more knowledge.

I'm very worried about the fact that she wasn't in optimal condition to begin with (which probably is the reason the others attacked her - there has never been a single bite between the three of them until now) and now sustained a grave injury.
She would desperately need energy but I have no idea if I should feed her or if she even would eat.

I don't know why she's been refusing to eat... it's not the first time she's been tricky about food but she had been eating normally until a month ago or so.(She's almost 2 years old) After that I've had to be extremely patient and spend a long time to get her to eat but she has just eaten barely enough to keep in fair shape. I've tried everything but she doesn't want anything except Axolotl pellets and guppy babies. (They are guaranteed healthy - I breed them myself since generations.)
But the last week or so I haven't been able to get her to eat anything.
I was just checking them and thinking that I'll try to get her to eat tomorrow, when I saw the injury.
I have to check the water parameters - if that might be a problem or something.
She might be constipated if she's swallowed sand but that's never happened before since I hand feed them.

And now this... :( I feel awful - if I'd only done a more serious intervention earlier, maybe this wouldn't have happened... But she seemed pretty okay so I didn't see a reason to go to extremes...
 
Try not to panic (although I can understand your worry). Axolotls have amazing healing abilities. Could you post some photos?

Test all the parameters including ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH and temperature. Axolotls are less likely to eat in the fridge as their metabolism slows down. I would probably remove him from the fridge and keep him in a tub of clean, cool, dechlorinated water somewhere cool and change 100% of the water in the tub daily. You could offer a black tea bath. Here is a guide on how to give one. Caudata Culture Articles - Illness Part 2

I would not give salt baths unless a fungal infection is present. It will appear as white cotton wool like fluff on the affected areas. Tea has some mild antibacterial and antifungal properties but is not irritating like salt baths so this would be a more appropriate treatment at this stage. Do you have a vet in your area? It may be worth consulting them if bone is exposed.

There is a fridging guide in this section of the forum so it would be good to give that a read in case you are unable to keep him cool without placing him in the fridge.
 
Thanks for the reply :)

I calmed down after the initial shock... I've seen huge injuries in vet care but when it's your own pets, it's different... and it looked nasty so it was quite a shriek moment.

I can't take photos right now since it's 3:40 AM and the lighting will be poor - and I need to get some sleep as well... But I'll take some tomorrow (rather - later today, GMT +1 time) if my lousy cell phone manages to produce anything somewhat clear.

My testbox is at my brother's - who borrowed it - but I'm gonna go fetch it tomorrow. I've had some problems with cyano algae in two aquariums for a while, but right now there doesn't seem to be any in their aquarium. Are Axies more vulnerable for that than other aquatic animals? pH might of course vary here and there depending on other stuff, but my town's water is quite hard - usually 7,8 - 8,1 with a median of 8,0.

I started thinking about my damn electric cigarette... I'm meticulous about scrubbing my hands every time I handle the aquariums due to possible nicotine residue on my hands but I started thinking about the vapor - would it perhaps be possible that it could get in the water...? :S I can't find any information about it what so ever - whether the particles can contaminate the surroundings or just are sucked down my lungs...
But the two males are healthy...

Temperature generally is a tad bit high but now in winter time it keeps at 16-18 since the aquarium is on the floor during summers and I still haven't put it up on a rack for this year.
My apartment is very warm but I keep windows open almost constantly. In summers I use fan racks for cooling.
Lighting is sparse - LED and doesn't warm the water at all.

I doubt that I could keep her cool unless in the fridge... I do have several empty smaller aquariums loitering around though, I'm gonna later today try to check out some areas beneath the windows and see if I can find a spot where the draft and floor is extra cool.
I turned up the temperature in the fridge and now it's about 8-9 degrees. Food might spoil but whatever.
Why would you prefer not to fridge? I have no clue about it so I try to understand everything I possibly can.

There are no vets in the area that have a clue about reptiles or amphibians... I know because I worked at a vet clinic and have worked with reptiles/amphibians on a tropic house and we had no vet available for trickier stuff - just a zoologist that could help out with his knowledge. Hell - we hardly even have any good feline vets around :S
Just dogs, horses and small animals.
I'm gonna try to investigate a little bit and see if I can find an email adress to some reptile/amphibian specialist in the US or something.

(If anyone has a tip - I'm thankful.)

I'm gonna try the tea bath. I'm just not sure whether I have an appropriate tea or if I have to buy some. The only black teas I have are all spiked with fruit or bergamot and stuff.
I have organic green tea but I have no idea if that might work?
Otherwise I'll buy later today. I'm just not really sure what to buy. I'll check that thread again - I read it earlier.
 
Hmm - the article said "oak leaves or beech leaves" could be used for the same effect but weaker.
I have catappa leaves for my shrimp and catfish - they are rich in tannines - perhaps that could work until I get a hold of pure black tea?
 
Thanks! :) I'm gonna pop a piece in before I go to bed for a few hours of sleep before I go hunting for more appropriate housing boxes, black tea and my test kit box.

The fridge temp is steady at 8-9 degrees and I peeked in to check on her and she was moving around more actively than in the aquarium so at least she's not dead yet...

I'm suspecting something wrong with the water for the bad condition she's been in.
Gonna check water parameters later.

I googled around for Axolotl + Catappa / almond leaves and it seems that quite a bunch of people have had good experience from them with Axies, so it's worth a shot.
They have been great for my fish and shrimp, at least.
 
Catappa leaves are fine and have similar effects as tea. However keep in mind they are known to lower Ph in the tank. It may better to offer a bath in a separate container for this reason. Otherwise black tea would be better than green tea.

Fridging slows down their metabolism and they are unlikely to eat in the fridge. I believe they heal best at 10 degrees Celsius so if you can keep the fridge at that temp it would be fine but it would be a shame to waste your food :-/.
 
Thanks a lot for all help, really :) I was really freaking out in the beginning. I'm usually not like that but I have huuuuuuge feelings of guilt about the whole thing - I should have taken her food refusal far more seriously, earlier. :(

My town has quite hard water (about 8) and usually the leaves tend to lower about 0,5 when I use them in the shrimp- and catfish tanks. 7,5 would be pretty ideal for Axolotls, wouldn't it? I didn't add more than a small piece since my leaves are quite large.

How come that green tea is less good than black? I read a little bit about it earlier and green tea is supposed to be very rich in tannins. I probably need to read more.
(I haven't slep at all - have been researching stuff all night...)

Well, whatever tea I use, I only buy organic stuff and that's probably to be preferred for amphibians either way due to susceptibility to possible toxins.

Screw the food! :D I'm a lazy bum and live on take away - so it's pretty much empty anyway. She's more important.
I can just put the stuff that need a cooler temperature in a box in the bottom of the fridge, together with ice packs and keep from buying anything that's fresh and needs refrigerator storing.

I managed to find two vets in Sweden that seem knowledgeable about exotic pets - I mailed one of them and am waiting for the phone time to the other one. (A huge clinic so might not be able to get a hold of that vet, though...)
I also got an idea - I searched, found and mailed a team of researchers at UC uni in California - that work with regeneration research and use Axolotls in their studies.
It's worth a shot.
I figured, since they specialize in specifically research on Axies and regeneration, they should know everything there is to know about optimal conditions for it.

You said 10 degrees - then I'll try to get the temperature up a few degrees more.
I've been checking throughout the night and it keeps steady at 8 - 8,5.
(Then it has to be the fridge, probably for now at least, since there is no way that I can keep 10 degrees in any part of my apartment, even on the floor under an open window.)
And my (very hairless) cats would probably object quite a lot to having ice cold winds flowing through the apartment 24/7... :p
But the winter is coming (...Game of thrones, anyone...? ;) ) so then it should be easier to be able to maintain a cooler temperature by a window.

How long should they typically be fridged? Until the wounds are closed?
 
Honestly don't worry, you wont have to amputate any thing, any part of the damaged limbs will come off eventually. I had an Axolotl which had 3 limbs bitten off. It will look like a bit of a disaster but as long as you keep the Axolotl in cool dechlorinated water changed 100% everyday the limbs will heal, as Skudo said the fridge is the best place for healing but since your Axolotl needs to eat its probably best to keep out of the fridge for now and try get some food in her. (Just be wary of fluctuating temperatures since moving in and out of the fridge can change the temperate quickly causing stress)

My Axolotl ended up developing fungus on all three missing limbs but I just did 100% water changes everyday and salts baths and he cleaned up really well and grew all his limbs back.

Keep an eye out for the chance fungus may begin to form, and keep ontop of the 100% daily water changes in the container shes in.
 
Thanks, Chris :)

My area of expertise is mammals, especially felines - so I get nervous when I don't have the situation completely under control... Now I feel silly for freaking out, but well...
I'm not an expert on this. I can care for reptiles and amphibians - but when it comes to injuries and disease - I'm pretty clueless...
Give me a sick cat / a cat with behavioural problems - I can solve it better than 90 % of vets since I've bred cats for 10 years.
But a broken little Axie makes me run around in circles and shriek and tear my hair... :p

But shouldn't I watch out for salt baths until she's a bit stronger / more healed - Like Skudo said? I might wait with that until I know if she'll develop fungus or not, perhaps?

I'm feeling a little bit conflicted about what to do about the fridge / not fridge.
I think I'm gonna put up a small tank close to a window where there is cool draft and see how the temperature develops there and then decide on where to house her, depending on the result.
 
Yes its always stressful dealing with something without experience but at least you have access to good information!

Oh no don't do salt baths unless fungus develops badly, I was just explaining the process I took for my situation with my Axolotl.

Yes perhaps keeping the temperature lower by the window might work to help healing but not diminish appetite
 
Update -

Did a full water change, added brew from organic ceylon tea and took a closer look at the same time and it really doesn't look good...

She's active and alert and every time I've checked on her - she's approached me - glaring at me. So she's not lethargic at least.

But the leg looks absolutely horrible... It literally hangs on to the absolutely upper most part of the leg, by the bone. There just isn't anything else left.
There is severe fungal infestation - it's become all fuzzy in just one day and the fuzz seems to be on her chest as well, not much, just in slight extension of the leg.

One of the vets mailed me back and was very nice, I really appreciate that she took time to try to help me out even though it's "free of charge" work for a complete stranger.
She said that she of course isn't allowed to give me specific treatment advice since she hasn't seen the animal in question but she wrote a little bit about possible causes for food refusal in amphibians, she also agreed that cold, very clean water is the correct way to go but also that it's quite important that I get some nourishment in her system in order to heal well and faster, but that I shouldn't force feed unless absolutely necessary, since it will stress her out even more.
She expressed concern over the severity of the wound as I described it and said that it might be a better option to amputate and regrow from scratch, due to the extreme risk of infection and massive fungal infestation, in such a large wound. That the limb will most likely go necrotic and might pose a risk for recovery.

I also think that a clean bite would have been much better, that the muncher would've taken off the whole leg and not left such a horrible injury...
I have equipment and skills to do it myself if I really needed to, but I won't.
But technically, if it comes down to amputation - any vet should be able to do it - not necessarily an exotic pets specialist - since it only concerns a fast, clean removal and nothing else.

She said that she had read different reports about Catappa leaves and other tannin treatments and was doubting the efficiency but that they at least are not harmful and therefore worth a try. She referred me to a few vets that she had heard were rumoured to have a special interest in exotic pets. I'm gonna try to get a hold of the two vets she referred to, on Monday.


So - I guess I need to start salt baths then? Should I start that immediately?
Once a day? Gonna read the salt bath guide again...
 
Hmmm. It does seem like amputation may be worth it. However I would get a vet to do this as will be and to offer appropriate analgesia and anaesthetics.

Yes salt baths may be necessary at this stage. Make sure you follow the guide in the sick axolotl section on this forum. I still prefer that they are kept cool but not in the fridge for this procedure (it suggests fridging). But in your case you may prefer to fridge if nowhere else is cool.
 
Thanks!

I don't have any non iodized salt at home - I'll go buy it first thing tomorrow.
Or perhaps it would be okay to use iodized for just one bath, though...?
If that's okay - I'll do it at once. If I'm not mistaken - the iodine thing is just a preventive measure for not inducing metamorphosis? Nothing harmful in itself?
Edit; I saw in an article that table salt should not be used due to anti caking agents.

I've set up a 54 L tank by an open window, on the floor, with just a bit of water. (Haven't got a smaller one empty at the moment...) Waiting for the temperature to settle so I can check where it lands, to see whether if it'll be cool enough. The temperature outside is about 3 degrees Celsius so it might just work.
I managed to raise the fridge temperature to 9 - 9,5 for now.

Yeah - I won't do anything by myself. I CAN do it - but my stomach wouldn't be able to handle cutting my own pets in pieces... :S I'm not sure if any vet here nearby would dare to dabble with anaesthesia on an animal they have no clue about how they work.
But I'm going to get a hold of the vets the other vet suggested - on Monday.
 
Update - Saturday;

I've had glasses and containers with water and thermometers standing all around the apartment, at spots I thought might have a good temperature, but to no prevail - my apartment is just too warm, even if we have snow falling right now... the lowest I could get to was 17 degrees.
So I decided - screw the food - and turned up the temperature in the fridge..

Right now it's becoming stabile at +14 degrees Celsius. (57,2 Fahrenheit.)
Should I lower a little bit? To what temperature, in that case?

She's had one salt bath and disliked it immensely... :S She kept trudging around and scratched her gills furiously every now and then.
(I followed recommendations for amount of salt and time in the bath.)

I used cotton buds to gently scrape off the fungi (that seems to have spread considerably during the night and day until I got the chance to go buy non iodized salt) from where I could and she also had shedded quite a bit of it in her container.

The leg doesn't smell necrotic but looks pretty awful and the tissue in the leg should be dead since there should be no connecting blood vessels left.
Hopefully it falls off without spreading any infection in the body but the bone might have to be removed either way since it's intact from what I can see with a magnifying glass. We'll see how it develops - if it's needed - I'll take her to a vet to have it amputated next week.

Earlier, she was pretty lethargic but that's probably due to the low temperature since she perked up considerably during the salt bath.
Considering the wounds and her bad shape - she seems hopefully energetic.

My plan at this point;

1) Salt baths and 100 % water change, twice daily
2) Amputation the coming week, if necessary.
3) When (if) she starts to heal and gets rid of the fungi - tea baths to help her recovery, perhaps.
4) Try to feed her a couple of times a day and hope she'll want something. Haven't tried yet since she's been in very cold temperature.

Does that sound reasonable?

What about the temperature - is 14 okay or should I set something slightly lower?

Anything else?

Again - thanks for all advice and help - it's really a life line when being confused about what to do.
 
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Poor baby :S (I can't figure out how the heck to add a small thumbnail so I'll leave it like this - with a huge pic...)
The fungi is not very visible on this pic - it's concentrated on the other side.
But the injury is visible. (I've messed a bit with contrast and sharpness since my cell can't take proper pics on such short distance and the "object" was moving around quite a bit :p
The angle turned up really weird but whatever - the leg is showing quite accurately.
The gills on the left side are also mostly gone and there is a small nip wound on the right elbow. Otherwise she's in one piece :S

Edit; Temperature is still not completely stabile in the fridge. It's at 11,5 - 12 degrees right now.
 
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Unfortunately, she didn't make it. :(
She seemed to be doing better but then had plunged during Sunday night and she was in a really bad shape and becoming worse.
Now when I checked her the last time, she was in the last stages so I decided to put her out of her misery rather than let her suffer a moment longer than necessary.

(Don't worry about sloppy work - I've been a cat breeder for 10+ years and also bred snakes and their food, so I'm unfortunately quite skilled in taking lives... :( )

A sad end to a sad story. :(

Thanks for all the advice, guys...
 
I am sorry to hear she did not pull through. It sounds like she may have had infection systemically from the wound.
 
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