Help sex T. grans

[Otterwoman]

Anyone want to try and sex these T. grans?
(Yes, this is my dream come true, and a few more are coming!)
Any attempts will be appreciated!
Do the brown marks on the cloaca of two of them (One and Two) have any significance?

Thanks

 

[apples]

Sexual dimorphism in T. granulosa is difficult, especially out of mating season.

Even with the enlarged cloaca and "nupital pads" the males develop during mating season--you often just have to watch the behavior of your animals to see which is which. The males will clasp to the females quite vigorously, and sometimes even to your finger. :blush: There is a change of the skin to a smoother texture during mating season, but this is much more prominent in T. torosa than T. granulosa.

There are some photos depicting mating Taricha granulosa in the Caudata species page if you want to see pictures of amplexus:

http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Taricha/T_granulosa.shtml

 

[Otterwoman]

Is there any significance to the brown marks by the cloaca?

 

[Kaysie]

Pshaw, Pin-pin, not even going to hazard a guess? I'm gonna go on a limb and say one is male, two is female, and three is unknown.

However, that being said, I had one I thought was female for 2 years and is now quite obviously a male.

 

[Otterwoman]

Thanks! I won't hold you to it if you're wrong
Still no ideas on the brown marks?
If it helps any, One and Two were originally together, and Three (one of three, two of three, three of three: like a little Borg collective) joined later. Three is really palling around with One, whether they like each other or just more similar in size, no clasping or anything like that though...

 

[Kaysie]

I've not found any correlation with the brown across the cloaca.

These guys are notoriously hard to sex. So unless you see hardcore amplexus and chin rubbing, I wouldn't be sure of anything. Even females amplex from time to time.

 

[Ester]

Taricha and figuring out what sex they are.. phew..
I have a bundle of em (12).. and I am sure of only 2 of them!
And to be honest, I am not entirely sure that they are sure of themselves!
If I were to go by visibly rubbed noses.. I'd have a lot of females, however..
I'm still waiting for proof of that .

If I were to hazzard a guess on these three, I'd say all of them are sexually immature.
One - uncertain but possibly male
Two - male
Three - female. A side shot of the cloaca would be more helpful here.

I am not sure, but I suspect that all immature taricha appear to have "male" looking cloacas.

Pin Pin - interesting observation about the change of skin texture. My certified male (he IS a male but seems to have fired only blanks) was slippery slimy smooth all winter. He's now returned to a somewhat more normal skin texture. At one point he looked more like newt pudding. However, the judge is still out on subspecies. He does have an exceptionally long tail. I wonder if more of them will develop such a long tail (19 cm long animal - 11 cm of that is tail).

 

[apples]

Having seen over a few hundred Tarichas in the wild, I'm more cautious about guessing, as the variation in population is significant. I'm even hesitant about participating in the "is this a torosa or granulosa" game without locale or egg details. Sounds like old age coming up.

As for the band around the cloaca, again there is variability. Male rivularis are supposed to have a dark, full band across the cloaca. In male granulosa or torosa, this is less evident. A good example is this old thread where the photo of a male T. torosa did not have very much of a band.

So is everyone thoroughly confused now?

 

[Ester]

I think captivated is the word I associate with Taricha

Any idea how long Taricha take to become sexually mature? Especially the one female I have is recognizable year round.

 

[Otterwoman]

I was wondering that very same thing and I also wanted to ask that!

 

[Otterwoman]

Well, whatever sex they are, they seem to have made friends!
Also a picture of my rearranged basement, to accomodate my new "Taricha Town"
(i.e. the really long tank!!).

 

[huug]

My guess is that one is immature (fe)male.
Two is a male and three might be a female but could allso be a young male.
Males have longer tales, and number two has a very long tail if you ask me.

One and three are both not round enough to say they are females.
By the way, i was told that granulosa takes about 4 to 5 years to become mature..