Help! Paddletail recovered from escape, very weak

[OAkritas]

Houdini escaped sometime last night and was recovered around 8:00 this morning. He was so weak i assumed him for dead. I put him in shallow water, dropped the temerature and have been waiting ever since, with nothing but faint movements and a spied breath as signs of life. I havent found enough info on refrigeration. I dont know what to do! At what temp should i keep him? For how long?

 

[jdlqh8]

I wouldn't take him out of the fridge until he gets better. The best of luck to you!


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[jdlqh8]

I'm sorry please disregard my last post. I thought you were talking about an axolotl. Sorry I'm still getting used to tapatalk.

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[Sawyer]

I wish I had more experience to provide some info for you. I hope that your newt can pull through,

 

[OAkritas]

Thank you for your support. Im still terrified for his well being. Still no good info on refrigerating paddletails. I have him in a container at about 20 degrees c in my room. Waking up every little while to check up on him. He still cant respond but he moved a smiggen from where he was.
ANY HELP WELCOME
Need info on paddletail refrigeration i dont want to get him too cold.
Right when i found him i brought water temp down gradually to 10 degrees, per the scarce info i could find on the web... Now broght it up to around 20

 

[OAkritas]

Houdini made it through the night, but is still very lethargic, hardly responding when I pick him up.

I've been keeping the temperature of his container consistently at 20 degrees centigrade, but am now thinking to drop the temperature closer to 15.

Still no clue as to how to help him make it through.
Apparently no "exotic pet" vets who know about newts in Durango.

FYI, this has happened to Houdini 3 times before. Hence the name! But he has never appeared this dire. : (

 

[Azhael]

It´s happened 3 times? And you still haven´t put a tight fitting lid? I´m sorry, but come on, all you have to do is put a mesh lid on or even a wide rim to prevent the animal from scaping.
I should also say that if this has happened 3 times already, it´s a pretty sure bet that your water chemistry is highly inadequate. These animals only leave the water if it´s inhabitable or if they are being severely bullied by a conspecific.
Read up on the cycling and water quality articles at CC as well as the Pachytriton caresheet.

By the way, wildly fluctuating temps are not going to help the newt. For this species, 15ºC is fine, but try to keep it fairly constant.

 

[OAkritas]

Thank you for your comment

I have had Houdini for a little over a year, and have had no visible problems with his health. After his first escape I refortified the aquarium with a terrarium mesh lid, and cut out a hole for the backpack filter. The second time he escaped I believe i left the lid ajar, the third time I have no idea. This time I think I may have left the water level too high, and he was able to, against all odds, launch himself against the stream, into the backpack filter and then somehow out. I'm making a mesh dome out of a colander to prevent this from occurring again. I respect this creature a lot and am not a negligent person. Perhaps he isn't comfortable in a ten gallon aquarium, or maybe he's simply adventurous.

I do a 50% waterchange once every two weeks
Houdini is the only creature in the aquarium, save for guppies that he munches on
I use city water, and treat it with "Prime", I use three drops to the gallon
I keep his water temperature constant between 13 and 17 degrees c

About a month ago I switched the gravel out from small pebbles to large gravel, because some of the pebbles were small enough to swallow, but the gravel is only about 1.5 inches deep, is that ok?

Any comments on his long term health are appreciated, however

Please refine comments toward Houdini's IMMEDIATE health needs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you

 

[maisy]

Hope your little guy pulls through. I remore 25 % of the water every 10 days and keep a lid with a lock (or weight) on it. No issues.
Please keep us updated on Houdini...we are rooting for him!

 

[OAkritas]

Thank you so much!

At the moment I DO NOT HAVE HOUDINI IN THE AQUARIUM

I have put him in a small tupperware container out of fear that he might DROWN!
Is this appropriate? He has been in the tupperware all day yesterday and all night.

-I am scrutinizing my tank and habits thoroughly to look for problems. I believe my gravel change could have poorly influenced the ammonia levels, but I'm out of testing supplies so I'm gana go get some.

-50% water changes are too drastic, I'm going to cut down to 20% once a week
-I fear my backpack filter is ghastly overdue for a filter change, but I don't want to do it quite yet given that I've been messing with the water all day, and did a huge water change the day before his escape ( : ( )

-The pet store where I purchased Houdini uses city water as well, but they gave me revolting advice for care for Houdini, and I shouldn't trust them...

 

[Azhael]

I see. I would recommend changing to a power head or an internal filter. If i understood correctly you have a waterfall filter and those are an invitation to problems, particularly for stream species.
You can pass cables through the wire mesh if you but holes and then stitch them up together again. That´s nice and secure, but trying to make a secure lid for a waterfall filter is very complicated.

50% water changes are way too much. You should reduce them to 20% of the total volume or less. By making such drastic changes and doing them regularly you are most likely preventing the bacteria from colonizing the tank and resulting in the cycled effect. You have to treat the bacteria nicely and not expose them to drastic changes that will kill them.
An uncycled tank would explain the repeated attempts of scape of your newt as they are highly sensitive to ammonia and other compounds.
I´d recommend getting a decent test kit to monitor water parametres while the cycling process develops. With 20% water changes every few days, it should be enough to maintain acceptable levels of these compounds until the bacteria can deal with them.

You are in the right track, but there are some things that you need to get acquainted with so again i strongly recommend you read the CC articles and as much information as you can get from the forums. Pachytriton are widely kept in captivity so there´s plenty about how to house them properly both in the newt & salamander help section and the Pachytriton advanced section.


PS: It seems my post is unnecessary now xD you addressed those problems while i was writing mine xD

 

[OAkritas]

Thank you so very much!!

I'm going to the pet store immediately:
-Internal, or powerhead filter
-20 gallon aquarium in the very near future
SHOULD I USE WATER FROM ANOTHER ESTABLISHED AQUARIUM TO COMPENSATE FOR NEW FILTER AND (possibly) COMPROMISED SUBSTRATE. OR DO DAILY WATER CHANGES WITH NEW WATER, WHILE MONITORING AMMONIA AND NITRATE LEVELS?!!! WHEN SHOULD I PUT HOUDINI BACK IN DEEP WATER!!!!?????

WHAT DO I DO FOR HOUDINI NOW? He's moving a little bit here and there, but hardly reacts when i pick him up which is highly abnormal for him!!

 

[Azhael]

Ok, start by trying to disturb Houdini as little as possible. Don´t touch it, don´t stress it, just provide clean, cool water (probably best if it´s just enough to cover it) and leave it be. Newts typically recover quite well from situations like these even if the dehidration seems severe, so hopefully your little fella will pull through.

If there are any changes you´d like to do to the aquarium, do them now so that then everything will be ready for you to start the cycling process uninterrumpted. Daily water changes may not be necessary. It depends on how much organic matter is in the water. If you don´t over feed and keep a decent cleaning pattern, you might find that you only need to make small changes every few days.
Live plants are of big help, particularly while the tank is cycling as they will process some of the organic compounds just as the bacteria would do. The more plants, the more stable the water will be.

Using water from an aged tank is not that useful as the bacteria form a biofilm over all submerged surfaces but don´t really inhabit the open water. To jump start a tank what you want is to use materials that are already covered with the biofilm, such as filter media or decorations.

I would continue to use treated tap water, doing 20% or less water changes and introduce lots of plants. That way it should be relatively easy to maintain a fairly stable environment which is what the newt will need. Bare in mind that the cycling process typically takes about a month to be completed and until then close monitorization of the parametres is your best bet at preventing fluctuations that will make your newt try to scape again (or worse).

By the way, the guppies are probably not helping right now. Either take them away until the animal fully recovers or cycle the tank WITH the guppies while keeping the newt in a separate container. Personally, i would do the former and cycle the tank with the newt because even in a cycling tank, it will be subjected to less stress than if it has to be changed and moved every day.

 

[OAkritas]

I would like to thank you all so much for your support and advice! (Especially Rodrigo!)

-I finally got a call from a vet, who advised that I increase his temperature to around 30c, as to increase his metabolism incase he absorbed any toxins on his escapade. I'm not sure how I feel about this, PLEASE POST!

-She said she had salamanders, which, "are different than newts". She used to keep them at room temperature. Sometimes they'd stop eating and she'd force feed them until they started eating again... This all sounds really contrary to my understandings, newts and salamanders are essentially very similar aren't they? I've never heard of keeping any amphibian anything other than cool...

She didn't mention anything about saline baths or refrigeration... I'm skeptical

 

[Azhael]

I´m sorry to say you didn´t find a good vet. Well, at least not one that knows much about amphibians.
The advice about raising the temp to 30ºC is insane. Those temperatures would be likely to kill even a perfectly healthy individual, let alone one who is not at its best. Those kinds of temps are potentially lethal to any caudate, but much more so to a species that inhabits cold streams.

I don´t even want to imagine what kind of care she provided to her salamanders, but it can´t have been a pretty situation. Poor animals...

As for the newt/salamander thing, it´s a common question. Not all salamanders are newts but all newts are salamanders. One of the salamander families is Salamandridae, which is comprised of three subfamilies, pleurodelinae , salamandrininae and salamandrinae. The term "newt" refers to all the species in the pleurodelinae subfamily, but only that one. "Salamander" on the other hand is a term that´s typically used for all members of the families that compose the order Caudata. I know it sounds a bit confussing but it´s actually fun

 

[OAkritas]

I'm sorry! She said room temperature, so more like 20-25, I'm just being **UnitedStatian**

-I just went for it and put Houdini in the aquarium. Its temperature is more stable and... I don't know. I'M SCARED, I hope I'm not just putting him through more stress.

-I checked the water quality and all is a-ok. As long as 7.5 is an acceptable PH (he's been in it anyways : S

-The water was harder than I expected!!! I hope that's not a problem...

 

[OAkritas]

Ok, so if the dude is exposing his "papillae" is there anything to worry about? He must be comfortable, right!!

Maybe he wasn't uncomfortable with the aquarium, he was just hitting the town? : )