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sarah
Guest
Found 3 salamanders outside after it rained. How do I find out what kind they are and how to care for them if it is legal?
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ira
Guest
why dont you put them back and go get a fire belly newt from the petstore if you are interested in keeping caudates as pets. This has several advantages:
1. Your not hurting local populations of caudates
2. you are helping a caudate that has already been ripped from its natural habitat and has no chance of ever being released back into it.
3. Fire bellies generally make more interesting pets than most north american salamanders.
but before you even decide to keep a newt as a pet, go to caudata culture (www.caudata.org/cc) and read everything you can about the species you want to keep.
1. Your not hurting local populations of caudates
2. you are helping a caudate that has already been ripped from its natural habitat and has no chance of ever being released back into it.
3. Fire bellies generally make more interesting pets than most north american salamanders.
but before you even decide to keep a newt as a pet, go to caudata culture (www.caudata.org/cc) and read everything you can about the species you want to keep.
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kaysie
Guest
Rule of thumb: if you dont know what it is, dont keep it.
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jennifer
Guest
Keep in mind that sals live a long time. Are you willing to make a 10+ year commitment to these animals (including keeping them very cool in summer)? If not, then indeed you should put them back in the woods somewhere (preferably at night).
If you really want to keep them, get a reptile/amphibian field guide from your local library or book store. You may be able to find one online if you search for "New York salamander species" on google or yahoo.
The idea to get a petshop firebelly instead doesn't make a lot of sense. If you want to keep a salamander, it makes more sense to catch a local one than to buy a petshop one because:
1. For every pet shop firebelly that becomes a happy healthy pet, several others die from the terrible care they receive during import and retail.
2. Hurting Chinese sal populations is no better than hurting local ones.
3. Paying $$ for animals just supports the evils of the pet trade.
If you really want to keep them, get a reptile/amphibian field guide from your local library or book store. You may be able to find one online if you search for "New York salamander species" on google or yahoo.
The idea to get a petshop firebelly instead doesn't make a lot of sense. If you want to keep a salamander, it makes more sense to catch a local one than to buy a petshop one because:
1. For every pet shop firebelly that becomes a happy healthy pet, several others die from the terrible care they receive during import and retail.
2. Hurting Chinese sal populations is no better than hurting local ones.
3. Paying $$ for animals just supports the evils of the pet trade.
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ira
Guest
good point jen.
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andrea
Guest
I agree Jen. It is one thing to collect a few specimines from your local area and take good care of them, it's another to buy sals and newts from pet stores where they have been shipped possibly half way around the world and are totally away from their natural habitat.
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stephanie
Guest
Sarah,
Welcome to Caudata...Don't be scared away! I also FOUND a salamander and came here to learn how to care for it. See my post "OUR NEW PET". Not everyone agrees with HOW to acquire a new pet, but this site has fantastic information that is extremely helpful.
Also, where did you find your salamanders? Where do you live? And what do the salamanders look like? Giving this information will help the KIND folks here identify the salamanders you've got. Once you know what you have, you can research what specific type of care they need.
Was your decesion to attempt to care for them based on a desire for a pet, or because the situation you found them in was not favorable for them? (ie they would die if you left them where you found them.)--not that it matters, just curious. LOL
Please keep us posted.
Good LUCK,
Stephanie
Welcome to Caudata...Don't be scared away! I also FOUND a salamander and came here to learn how to care for it. See my post "OUR NEW PET". Not everyone agrees with HOW to acquire a new pet, but this site has fantastic information that is extremely helpful.
Also, where did you find your salamanders? Where do you live? And what do the salamanders look like? Giving this information will help the KIND folks here identify the salamanders you've got. Once you know what you have, you can research what specific type of care they need.
Was your decesion to attempt to care for them based on a desire for a pet, or because the situation you found them in was not favorable for them? (ie they would die if you left them where you found them.)--not that it matters, just curious. LOL
Please keep us posted.
Good LUCK,
Stephanie
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ira
Guest
i just generally think aquatic newts are more visually interesting and entertaining pets than most of the mole slamanders and other US natives are. They still have alot of appeal, but more for people who are really interested in them already, not for people who just find them running around their backyards.
Even though the cfbs you see in the petsore are ripped from their natural environment and i hate to support the rape of the wild and commercial greed, but it is still a living creature and i would rather see someone take an animal that is already taken from its natural environment and has no chance of ever returning to it and then providing that creature with a comfortable existance than take a local animal out of its environment where it could be reproducing and helping sustain wild populations.
thats just what i beleive though.
Even though the cfbs you see in the petsore are ripped from their natural environment and i hate to support the rape of the wild and commercial greed, but it is still a living creature and i would rather see someone take an animal that is already taken from its natural environment and has no chance of ever returning to it and then providing that creature with a comfortable existance than take a local animal out of its environment where it could be reproducing and helping sustain wild populations.
thats just what i beleive though.
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kaysie
Guest
I can make everyone happy here: Get Axolotls. 1.)they're aquatic (more visually interesting) and 2.) they're ambystoma, and everyone loves ambystoma!
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jesse
Guest
hooray for kaysie!
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edward
Guest
With regard to wc species, if no one collects any of the locally abundent species and keeps them or attempts to keep them, then how can we figure out the husbandry requirements of those species?
This lack of knowledge isn't just in the hobbyist sector but does carry over to the Zoos.
I would suspect that the majority of native USA species kept in captivity come from the following groups, ambystomids, Taricha, and Notopthalmus......
Ed
This lack of knowledge isn't just in the hobbyist sector but does carry over to the Zoos.
I would suspect that the majority of native USA species kept in captivity come from the following groups, ambystomids, Taricha, and Notopthalmus......
Ed
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kaysie
Guest
Ed, nothing wrong with small scale collecting. But the point is: if you dont know what it is, you should probably not collect it. Sometimes this can be dangerous, eg: if you didnt know the difference between a cottonmouth and a garter snake (okay, bad example, but you get my point).
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edward
Guest
Hi Kaysie,
Okay how often can the average person id an animal like a caudate (in particular) without the animal in hand? (Desmogs for one example can be very difficult to identify unless you have the animal in hand and know the collecting locality of the animal.)
Many people when the discover a new animal in their backyard (or nearby) would like to know about it. These are the people that want to learn about these animals and should be encouraged to do so. In this way, the people can "connect" with the species in question and then may be interested in conservation of the that species locally (possibly by not using pesticides, herbicides, creating habitat by keeping a log pile, flat rocks ect). Otherwise there is no interest and any chance for local/nonlocal preservation is out the window.
I didn't pay much attention to this thread initially (and in retrospect I should have) but what bothered me was that in the first response there was a condemnation of catching the animals, a recommendation to put them back and purchase wc animals from the store.
In retrospect this would have been fine if there was an attempt to narrow down the species and give some short-term care information as well as the recommendation to not expose it to any exotics. If these were kept in the same room/container as exotic amphibians then I would need some compelling reasons to recommend releasing the caudates. (For example there is some strong circumstancial evidence that chytrid may have originally been spread via Xenopus in lab and pet wastewater).
If I was a new poster I probably would not have bothered hanging around after the first couple of posts as the information I was looking for was not provided in any fashion. I think we should initially encourage new members.....
Many people keep newts as they are usually easily visible, active during the day, and are often colorful while for example Plethodontids are usually drabber and much shyer animals Unlike ambystomids who often learn to beg unceasingly for food). This does not make them less interesting as they often have complex behaviors that are interesting.
That is just my opinion.....
Ed
Okay how often can the average person id an animal like a caudate (in particular) without the animal in hand? (Desmogs for one example can be very difficult to identify unless you have the animal in hand and know the collecting locality of the animal.)
Many people when the discover a new animal in their backyard (or nearby) would like to know about it. These are the people that want to learn about these animals and should be encouraged to do so. In this way, the people can "connect" with the species in question and then may be interested in conservation of the that species locally (possibly by not using pesticides, herbicides, creating habitat by keeping a log pile, flat rocks ect). Otherwise there is no interest and any chance for local/nonlocal preservation is out the window.
I didn't pay much attention to this thread initially (and in retrospect I should have) but what bothered me was that in the first response there was a condemnation of catching the animals, a recommendation to put them back and purchase wc animals from the store.
In retrospect this would have been fine if there was an attempt to narrow down the species and give some short-term care information as well as the recommendation to not expose it to any exotics. If these were kept in the same room/container as exotic amphibians then I would need some compelling reasons to recommend releasing the caudates. (For example there is some strong circumstancial evidence that chytrid may have originally been spread via Xenopus in lab and pet wastewater).
If I was a new poster I probably would not have bothered hanging around after the first couple of posts as the information I was looking for was not provided in any fashion. I think we should initially encourage new members.....
Many people keep newts as they are usually easily visible, active during the day, and are often colorful while for example Plethodontids are usually drabber and much shyer animals Unlike ambystomids who often learn to beg unceasingly for food). This does not make them less interesting as they often have complex behaviors that are interesting.
That is just my opinion.....
Ed
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joseph
Guest
Ed: How can use observe the behaviors if they tend to hide away most of the time?
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kaysie
Guest
I think every animal from the smallest Hydra up to the biggest whale is interesting in its own right. But just because it's interesting doesn't mean I'm going to keep it. For instance, if a siberian tiger wandered into my yard, I surely wouldnt try to keep it. I dont know how much they eat, how much room they need, I dont know anything about caring for them. Instead, I would alert the local authorities, as siberian tigers are not native to michigan.
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edward
Guest
The caudates in everyone's collections all came at some point in their lineage from wc animals (varying from wc themselves to F1 and so on), what is the appropriate threshold for where we are no longer being hypocritical by advocating not collecting the salamanders in question?
(By the way the tiger is not an apt example).
In general I think that we need to encourage the new people who keep one or two animals collected out of their backyard for the reasons I listed above.
Ed
Ed
(By the way the tiger is not an apt example).
In general I think that we need to encourage the new people who keep one or two animals collected out of their backyard for the reasons I listed above.
Ed
Ed
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russ
Guest
You guys did it again. How about just answering the questions on this forum and keeping our opinions to ourselves. I doubt she'll come here for help again.
RUSS
RUSS
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anthony
Guest
well said russ.