Hatchlings

[Roney]

My Cynops orientalis eggs started hatching they live with the adults in a 10 gallon walstad tank with plenty of plants to hide from adult attacks. My question is what's the likely hood of them actualy surviving with the adults, the adults have shown no interest in them so far probably because of the abundance of live blood worms that live on the tank floor.

 

[Azhael]

You won´t get large numbers of larvae reaching metamorphosis, but those that do will probably do nicely. I raise my H.orientalis larvae with their parents because i never aim for large numbers, i´m happy with just a few survivors. There is a bonus for this method which is that there is some degree of selection. The fittest will outcompete the rest, which is definitely good for the species´s future in captivity.

The adults are unlikely to predate on larvae unless they are weak anyway. Larvae are well equipped to avoid predation from the adults, although some degree of cannibalism between larvae is not impossible (they aren´t particularly agressive, so it´s not very common).

 

[Roney]

That was my thinking that only the stronger ones would stay alive I didn't want to raise big numbers so natural selection can take place there is also more eggs that havnt hatched so hopefully atleast 10 survive

 

[stanleyc]

Last year my c. orientalis female laid between 90-100 eggs. I took out at least 80 of them to hatch separately. But whatever number of eggs I did leave, I did have 5 survivors.

 

[Roney]

To my surprise my Larvae are surviving in the tank with the adults here is a picture.

 

[Jennewt]

I am not surprised. I raise larvae in the tank with the adults for several species of Cynops. The only real difficulty is that during the second half of larval development, they need to eat a significant amount of food, and it's hard to provide this in the same tank with adults. (During the first half, they larvae probably survive largely on the micro-fauna present in the tank, which is too small for the adults to compete for.) The best way to get full-sized morphs (as opposed to scrawny undersized morphs) is to provide a lot of food that both the adults and larvae can eat, such as whiteworms or blackworms.

 

[Roney]

Thats exactly what i do i buy 2 portions of black worms and it last them a week or two. When should i put the larvae in the semi aquatic tank because i know the juveniles live more on land.

 

[Yahilles]

Jen: What's the difficulty? In my orientalis tanks the advanced larvae just eat the frozen food (bloodworms, glassworms) or live daphnias that their parents get.

 

[Azhael]

The difficulty lies in that it only works well if there´s plenty of food around. If they have to compete for the food, the adults are much more able and finish it all before the larvae get a real chance. I´ve experienced the same situation that Jen describes, the larvae do very well on microfauna until they are about 2cm long, at which point they need suplementation. Some larvae are quite decent at snatching some food before the adults arrive, but others are left hungry.
I find that the first batch of larvae in an stablished breeding tank do very well on the plentiful microfauna, but their younger brothers struggle. It also varies depending on species and how agressive and greedy the adults are.

Unless you can provide lots of food like blackworms or Daphnia, it´s worth separating the larvae when they get to a certain size so that they can grow better (if you are hoping for larger morphs).

 

[Roney]

I agree it would be difficult for me to feed them all but the walstad style tanks makes it easier for the black worms to move around the tank. i buy nice size portion from the pet shop the adults eat their fill then the larvae get the left overs that have traveled away from the spot that the whole group was dropped in. Even weeks later i can see the worms poking out and larvae eating them.

 

[Joost]

I use separate large tanks to raise them. I also prefer to raise them when the strongest survive, but in case of C./H. orientalis I would raise large numbers. This species is still imported in huge amounts, and will be sold also. So people still want them. Why not raise many of them, so we can provide more cb worldwide? Of course, we need many breeders all over the world, but it's a start in the right direction.

 

[Yahilles]

I agree it would be difficult for me to feed them all but the walstad style tanks makes it easier for the black worms to move around the tank. i buy nice size portion from the pet shop the adults eat their fill then the larvae get the left overs that have traveled away from the spot that the whole group was dropped in. Even weeks later i can see the worms poking out and larvae eating them.

That's right. And in my case it was never a problem... there is always something left by the adults, or worms that left in places where adults can't get them, and larvae eat those. I have never had any problems like that, with big larvae being hungry in adults' tank.

 

[Azhael]

Joost, as much as i agree with you i have to say it´s not easy finding people interested in juveniles of H.orientalis. I always raise small amounts because quite simply i don´t have the resources for large numbers, but still i always end up with a few that nobody seems to want, even though i give them away for free! I don´t care as i like raising them and don´t mind keeping them for over a year, but it´s still rather sad to see that there isn´t a larger demand.
Still, even if the demand for CB H.orientalis isn´t as big as it should be, it´s lovely to see how more and more people breed and raise their orientalis. Between the more dedicated and intensive breeders like you Joost, and people like me and MANY others who are small scale, there are plenty more breedings than there used to be, which is just brilliant

I think the tides are charging at least in how people perceive this species. They used to be these dirt cheap things you could buy anywhere and you could just chuck in with your fish, and if they died, well, there were plenty more. Now you see more people that value them for the wonderful species that they are, that actively seek CB specimens, and that make an effort in providing good care, which inevitably leads to breeding. Sure the imports are still massive, but the mentality of people is changing or at least i like to think it is.

 

[Molch]

I have one big larva in my apuanus tank. I feed bloodworms and Daphnia which he also gets but the earthworm pieces I feed are still too big for him.

I wish I could get blackworms, but I haven't figured out how to get them where I live. They don't ship too well, or do they?

 

[Roney]

When they morph should I keep them fully terrestrial or semi aquatic, any suggestions. And what are good indicators that morphing is going to occur I have about 10 larvae in the adult tank and there sizes range.

 

[Azhael]

You can raise them either way. I used to raise them terrestrially, but i´ve changed to semi-aquatic, i like it better.
You may want to read this article:
Caudata Culture Articles - Raising Juvenile Newts

Morphing time is preluded by the larva developing the ventral coloration, the caudal fin and the gills being rebsorved, the limbs thickening and the head taking an "adult" shape...

 

[Roney]

Ok I'm going to do some research and see which better suits my expenses because I only have a 5 gal tank and I dnt think that is the right size for 10 morphs. But I have old plastic bins that I stored my tiger sals in.

 

[methodik]

About the discussion if raising great numbers of them is sensible I think that the mass-import is not a sign of so many people wanting them, but their massive availability is the reason why so many people want them (or are told to keep them as "first newt"). Market mechanisms in this case work only in one direction, the principle of supply - and then demand, and that is pretty much what Azhael's example shows, I guess.
Still I would also say the consciousness of newt keepers grows with the work that is done especially on forums like this one.

Just my small point on this topic, sorry that I am not really able to say anything about the original topic because I am more of a newt newb(ie).

 

[Roney]

Found the first morph gasping for air in the adult tank i had no idea they were so close to morphing, i put him in my old tiger sal bin plenty of room, i put 5 of his siblings in my 5 gal tank semi aquatic until they morph. I have no idea were or what food to get them any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[RobM]

Cute little guy.

Do you think there is a major advantage using a walstad style tank as opposed to a bare bottom tank, as it increases hiding places for both food and larvae? I am assuming it must be a big advantage for them.