Green juvies(Notophthalmus)

[Azhael]

I recently acquired 5 N.v.viridescens, which by they way look much better now (they had a little bloating episode), and i can´t help but notice they are not red as i had imagined they would be xDDDD
This may be a completely stupid question but this is my first contact with this species, so i ignore lots of things about them, is it normal that the juveniles have adult coloration???
I´m guessing as they age the red coloration will appear, after all they are freshly morphed.
However, the guy i bought them from, told me i could keep them aquatic if i wanted to. Which i didn´t, because i´ve had a couple of bad experiences involving juveniles and water in the past, so i´m not going to take the risk.
Could that mean, though, that there´s a chance they will retain this green coloration?

 

[slowfoot]

Are they captive bred? It's possible that they may never get as red as wild caught animals because of differences in the diet. Another possibility is that they could be one of the subspecies of N. viridescens that doesn't have a red eft.

Or maybe they just haven't gotten red yet.

You should post pictures - I'd love to see more Notos here.

 

[Azhael]

I will try to take some decent pictures(the ones i have suck).
They are viridescens viridescens which if i understand correctly is the subespecies with the reddest efts, and they are CB.
However i didn´t know diet affected their eft coloration, i thought it was more of an hormonal thing.
I also think i read there are populations of N.v.viridescens that skip the eft stage, so who knows maybe my animals are of that particular bloodline.
I have lots of different theories in my mind hehe.

Thank you for answering Erin, i hope they get as beautiful and adorable as your babies.
I´m really curious about how the eft thing works....if i have to be honest, i´ve always dreamt about having a beautiful bright red eft, so i hope they change when they are bit older.

 

[Greatwtehunter]

I don't think N. v. viridescens skip the eft stage, at least I don't think they do. The only ones I have heard that skip that stage are N. v. louisianensis and N. v. dorsalis. From your description I would venture to say that you may have N. v. louisianensis. Now if your positive you have N. v. viridescens, the brightest coloration appears in individuals from higher elevations. You could try dusting their food with carotene or paprika. I have used them both with pretty good results. Hope that helps.

Later,
Justin

 

[antcatcher11]

I believe it is more rare for N. v. viridescens to skip the eft stage, I belive it was the species that Midnight posted about that commoly does it. I have a few questions, can you discribe their red spots (if the have them) and are they aquatic? They aren't efts if they are aquatic, and do they still have gills? Sorry, I am just confuzzed on what life cycle stage you have...

 

[Azhael]

As i said they are freshly morphed. One of them even had gill buds when they arrived. They are terrestrial(forest type setup).
They were sold to me as N.v, viridescens and as far as i can tell they fit the description. I´ve seen pics of louisianensis and they look nothing like it. The spots are not joined in a line, so they aren´t dorsalis either.
Their spots are yellow, so i guess they were raised with a deficit of carotenes, but can this really prevent them from becoming red efts?
Now that i think of it, it makes sense though...how can you become bright red if you don´t have the pigments? I always thought it was something hormonal, like the kind of colour changes some species experience during breeding season(which are at least partially independent from diet). What Greatwthunter mentions about high altitudes promoting brighter colours was one of the reasons i never thought diet could affect the eft stage.

I´m guessing i´ll just need to be patient and see how they develop, but commenting on it is very interesting to me....the more i know about this species the better.

Thank you all for your time

 

[antcatcher11]

interesting, maybe you can try native insects mixxed in if they are very small. I also noticed a pool in my town filled with long white aquatic worms that burrow in the soil, as far as I know there are a few species efts could eat in my area that could create the red color. Well, anyway here is an example of an eft in my town. I suspect it to be about a year old becuase of its small size, but as you can see it has a nice red-orangish color to it with the round spots quite clear.

I really want to know what really makes an eft get its bright color, maybe it got it in the first place to warn predators that it is deadly.

 

[Nathan050793]

As i said they are freshly morphed. One of them even had gill buds when they arrived.

That explains the whole situation itself- fresh CB morphs of N.v.v tend to be a dull brownish/orange/drab color, or at least in my experience.

 

[Azhael]

Yes, they do, they have that intense red coloration as a warning to potential predators that they taste really bad and are poisonous.
That little eft looks great by the way. Mine look just the same except in green xD I´ll try to take pictures tomorrow.

They are eating woodlice, which i believe are rich in carotenes, so maybe at least their little yellow spots will colour up.


Just read your post Nathan. That´s what i think is happening...they are simply way too young.

 

[jbherpin]

Just read your post Nathan. That´s what i think is happening...they are simply way too young.

I have seen many larval N.v.v., and all are green while still aquatic. I think time, change of habitat(water to land), and diet all contribute to the red coloration. My advice is, be patient and give it a month before accepting their coloration. As Greatwhitehunter stated, the carotene is crucial. I would get a fruit fly culture and put a few carrot pieces in the growing/feeding medium, and let the fruit flies gorge(feed) on that for 1 or 2 days and offer on a continuous cycle in conjunction with the woodlice and maybe some spring-tails. I hope this helps friend...
-jbherpin-

 

[Azhael]

Here is a picture of one of them. I actually think they are starting to loose the green and are becoming browner.

 

[Nathan050793]

They look normal to me, they also appear to be pretty healthy!

Just thought I'd mention that in my experience, these new morphs are ridiculously hard to raise...

 

[Jennewt]

In my experience, the diet during the larval period really determines the animal's coloration to a large degree. Feeding it with foods rich in carotene now (post-morph) might develop a bit of orange color, but it will never look as bright as a WC eft. This is fairly common for CB newts. It doesn't seem to make them any less healthy. For another example, look at Erin's CB Notos:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=54645
and I could show you many examples of firebellies with yellow bellies.

 

[Azhael]

I know about yellow bellied newts hehe I´ve had some morphs with nearly cream bellies....others with a fairly nice bright red belly.
Again, i didn´t suspect eft coloration was determined by diet. Now that i know i´ll try to intensify their colour if possible....but i don´t really care...i´m far more worried about their health than their colours....

 

[bobberly1]

Try paprika or a commercial color-enhancer, such as stuffing food items with color-enhancing fish food. I know paprika works wonders on dart frogs, and is used extensively. Just mix it with the calcium when you dust.

 

[Azhael]

Paprika is powdered peper right??? Can you really give that stuff to newts??? I mean...some kinds are very spicy.
I was warned once about colour-enhancer, i was told they can create liver-kidney failures.
Anybody can share their experience with coclour-enhancers or paprika??? I would apreciate some first hand experience...i´m quite cautious these days.

 

[bobberly1]

Here's a link to a video by Richard Revis. He owns Black Jungle Terrarium supply and is one of the heads of the PDF hobby.

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/14927_poison-frogs-suppliments-paprika.htm

Can't promise it'll work, but it's cant hurt and it's worth a shot.

 

[jbherpin]

What a respectable source! I wonder if it can be applied across the board to newt hobbiests? I know people do, but seems as though a risk is taken just for a little more intense coloration. I still prefer to use carrots and carotene to enhance colors by gut-loading all live feeders. This just seems the safest bet, and indeed, more natural.
-jbherpin-

 

[bobberly1]

That is carotene, I think. Either way, there's a commercial product that I saw at an expo.

 

[Greatwtehunter]

I have used both paprika and carotene with my dart frogs and newts. I haven't noticed that one will work better than the other so I just use which ever one is convient at the time. As for preference though I would lean more towards paprika and thats just because its so much more readily available. On a side note, as stated earlier I think, color enhancement is much more important and effective during the larval stage. I have noticed a slight difference in the orangeness (if thats even a word) of my efts feed with dusted fruit flies but to me the little bit of enhancement you do get is really not worth the effort after they have morphed.