Gravel, contradicting advice

[Thelmab9]

Please please somebody help me with my dilemma!?

I went to look at a reptile and aquarium shop today. Before going i called and asked if they had axolotls. "yes we have about 4 different colours to chose from" I also asked if they were in good condition and explained that i had been looking for one for a while, but all the axolotls i had seen in shops had gills missing or skin peeling or fungus... "oh no, ours are all in tact, yes we look after ours" SO..... after driving 1/2 an hour to get there, there is one small (maybe 50cm across) tank with i think 6 or 7 axolotls in it. Yes there were different colours and sizes but..... only one had ANY gills, one poor little bugger was missing TWO legs and the smallest one..... well i would have called him anorexic!

I was approached by a young tattoo covered and very pleasant young man. I asked if he knew a lot about axolotls and he explained how he had been breeding them since he was about 7 so he knew a fair bit and then rattled off most of what i have ever read on here! EXCEPT...... he said NO SAND!
I have asked at a few different places just to see what they say and have been pretty much brushed off with things like "oh they sometimes eat the gravel but they're ok" but this was nothing like that, this man genuinely had time for me and cared about the animals. He explained that he only worked there one day a week and every time he came in he took the fish that were eating at the axolotls out of their tank but every time he came back someone had put the fish back in (this wasn't the man i had spoken to on the phone) So he tells me that yes they do eat a bit of gravel and generally spit it back out or sometimes it goes through and comes out the rear but this doesn't hurt them. He also said that they tend to eat a bit of sand and that causes impaction. Also that sand can hold air pockets and if the axolotl walks over it and it bursts it will be toxic and could kill it so the sand is a total no no. He advised me not to buy any axolotls that were there but said he could order one in for me but not until he had tested my water and i had got rid of the sand. He said this was free and even offered to lend me some goldfish to help the tank cycle. I explained i had some rosy barbs in there for that very purpose, he said that was fine but they had to come out once the axolotl went in.

Sorry for the long speil, i'm just so confused as this man seemed to know so much and actually care!
I'm now at my witts end and about to let my kids move thier goldfish into the big tank cos i'm just so worried about doing the wrong thing!

 

[Colinna]

Sand will generally only get toxic air bubbles if it's quite deep. For Axi's you only need it quite shallow. It's merely something for them to grip onto as they walk across the bottom. So shallow sand should not have air bubbles. Also, if you do have it deeper you can use you water syphon to disturb the sand to ensure that there are no lasting air bubbles underneath.

You only have to look on this site to see several members that have had their Axi's suffer from ingesting gravel. They can't always pass it.

If you are still worried about the sand you could go for larger river rocks. Although they are a pain to keep clean as all the yukky stuff ends up underneath them.

good luck!!

 

[Cas]

I don't have sand in any of my tanks, not because I'm worried about impaction, but I just can't be bothered rinsing it and I honestly haven't a clue how you would clean it without sucking out all the sand.

As for gravel. My goldfish seem to have worked out a method to get rid of it swim slowly facing the ground, open your mouth and out comes the gravel. I can't imagine my axie ever doing that though. Last night I was moving things around in my tropical/goldfish tank, it contains small sized gravel and it discovered when I pulled my hand out I had 10-20 tiny cuts all over my fingers which stung slightly.

Gravel can have very sharp edges (evidenced by the tiny cuts on my finger) I can only imagine how cut up inside then an axie would be after trying to pass gravel. It would be like me swallowing small chunks of glass and saying "she'll be right".

 

[Thelmab9]

Thanks heaps, I do know what you mean about the gravel being sharp. I was quite happy with the sand in my tank as i thought that was probably close to what would be at the bottom of a lake?
So can i keep the rosy barbs in there? I thought (hoped) the axolotl would eat them?
Oh, one more q (sorry) he also said i can only feed red earth worms as brown and grey ones have a yellow toxic tip? Anyone know anything about this?

 

[Cas]

It actually surprised me a little just how sharp the gravel was!

I can't comment on earth worms as I've never used them, however rosy barbs can grow to a decent size and in my experience can be somewhat aggressive. I had them in with some goldfish and white clouds and they were really nasty fish, even to the goldfish which were x20 their size if not more (they would bite their fins). Here it is suggested not to keep fish with axies, but if you think its worth the chance my best advice would be to keep a really close eye on them and removed them at the first sign of anything untoward. Mine were biting fins, so perhaps your axies feathery gills would be a target?

 

[iChris]

gravel is definitely a no-no, axies are capable of passing it, but it does get stuck sooner or later, and it literally backs up their digestive system. I would like to invite the employee that told you that to eat some golf ball sized pebbles with his next meal, and then we can see how long, if that is, it takes him to pass them.

sand is ok but just don't have a thick layer of it, that applies for all aquaria. and fish usually do go for axie gills, they would look just like bloodworms to another hungry fish.

 

[Thelmab9]

Thanks everyone I will keep my sand and will do some research about the worms. As for the rosy barbas, I had them in there to help the tank cycle (although now I've read that they don't really help) and figured the axolotl would eventually eat them. But after seeing what they've done to the sand and plants I agree they must go. Maybe they can go into our fish pond and see just how big they can get!

 

[callina]

Hi,

you can use sand or gravel in your axie tank, both are fine. But you have to consider that:

sand:
the max depth should be 1 inch. If it´s deeper than 1 inch, the sand is building air clusters and that fouls the water. You can see it if you dig with your fingers below logs or caves. Air bubbles will rise to the surface and the sand looks black.
You have to grab with your fingers through the sand once a week to eliminate these air bubbles.

gravel:
no problems with air bubbles, but the gravel must be only 1-2mm in diameter for that the axies can "eat" it and it goes through their digestive system and will be pooped out. If the gravel is bigger, more than 3mm, it can lead to impaction.

As for the earthworms, the rosy ones are fine, the grey or greenish ones (I don´t know, if they are really toxic) taste bitter and the axies will spit them out.


Tina

 

[Boo Penguin]

I use sand... only a thin layer on the bottom... like maybe 2 cm. As for the cleaning thing... stretch an old stocking over the end of your siphon and secure it with an elastic. That way you can agitate the sand all you want and it isn't all sucked up by the siphon. But the gunk and poo still gets cleaned

Btw those poor axi's in the shop... I feel sooo bad when I see that. There is a pair of lovely axi's at my LFS which are clearly not well looked after. I tried telling the guys there that they needed colder water, less water agitation and a bigger tank in general but they didn't listen... plus I know for a fact they are feeding them meal worms. These little guys are so cute too, but have almost no gills and have obviously been fighting. My sister really wants to rescue them but we don;t have anywhere to put them. My own axi is about twice their size so I dare not risk them going in the same tank.

 

[Kaysie]

The most unfortunate thing about rescuing is that while you may be saving the lives of those you purchase, the pet shop will just get more. So you're saving one life, while dooming another.

 

[mekkha]

Good information in this thread! I didn't know about air bubbles in the sand. I thought I had measured one inch when I put mine in but I took a bunch out today just to be safe. I had WAY too much in there.

Lucky for me my tank is still empty, but even more lucky to have this forum!