Genetics confuse me

[musilvr4eva]

So I recently bred my female wild type GFP to my male gold albino. The babies are now two months old. They range from 1 1/4" to 2 1/2". I see I have wild type melanoid, wild type GFP melanoid, wild type and wild type GFP. The other color in there confuses me. They look mainly gold, with black spots. This would make me feel like they are going to turn into a gold albino, however EVERYONES eyes are black, making me feel like this isn't the case. Is it not possible to get gold albino out of this color combination? Or are some of the babies miraculously going to turn into my beloved gold albinos that I want so badly? Any help with experiences would be appreciated. I'm just not understanding this.

~Emily~
musilvr4eva

 

[smily sam]

Im not intirelly shure but it sounds like you've got a leustic.
Again im not to shure,
Sam

 

[michael]

My guess is they are leucistic. It sounds like you got a good mix from the cross. If they wind up as gold with black spots and not white with black eyes give me a call.

 

[bayhicoach]

Yeah. Is there such a thing as Golden Leucistic yet? Sounds interesting. Speaking of genetics, Michael, I just hatched a bunch of Golden Albino x Albino eggs and many of the larvae are VERY green. Is GFP dominant or recessive?

I have one Leucistic GFP from the eggs you sent me last April but the adult albinos are from a different batch that I got from Shoegal in June (separate tank, etc.).

The top photo hasn't hatched yet but is the one that seems to be GFP. The bottom photo has hatched and seems to be a normal Golden Axolotl.

 

[michael]

I hate to hijack this thread but I suppose we are still talking about confusing genetics. Gfp is something other than simple recessive. It is not totally dominant either. If you breed a gfp to a normal some of the offspring will be gfp. I'm not sure gfp can be carried in an adult that is not showing the trait (phenotypic).

 

[musilvr4eva]

The mother is a wild type GFP that I've bred three times now. Each time she's given me a pretty even amount of babies that carry her gene. The last time I bred her I used her with a leucistic male and did end up getting leucistic GFPs. So why didn't it work using a golden albino male? I was looking at the babies closer today, and NONE of them have red/peach eyes like their dad. Is the wild type gene more dominant over golden albino than it is with leucistic? I've had five batches of baby axolotls using different parents each time, and each time I get just about 50/50 for who looks like mom and who looks like dad. I just find it so bizarre that I didn't end up with any goldens, I do believe all of them are wild type (melanoid and non melanoid, GFP and non GFP). If I tried to breed the wild type GFP mother with an albino male is the same thing going to happen, or will I get albino GFPs? If it helps anyone, my avatar does have both parents in the picture. Mom is second from the left and dad is all the way to the right, I know it's hard to see but it's all I have at this time.

 

[musilvr4eva]

Is it possible that even at the age and size of the babies that they could still be changing colors? I don't see them going leucistic, but maybe, just maybe, they are going gold. This is doubtful, but who knows. I just hate to sell them all and then find out that I did indeed have goldens.

~Emily~
musilvr4eva

 

[bayhicoach]

Goldens are, first, albinos. So, if you're not looking at critters with red eyes they can't be golden. Secondly, Goldens have the iridiphores that give them this color. If those are not present, they can't be golden. These two traits are obvious from very early on. Look at the picture above - the larger of the two is only two days out of the egg. It is a golden. The "dirty" coloration on other light colored animals is xanthophores and melanophores. These impart totally different colors to the animal. In wild types and dark melanoids, these are the colors that dominate.

 

[Zalth]

( I read "So I recently fed my female wild type GFP to my male gold albino" )


But well, sounds like an interesting mix, post more pics later on!

 

[michael]

. So why didn't it work using a golden albino male? I was looking at the babies closer today, and NONE of them have red/peach eyes like their dad. Is the wild type gene more dominant over golden albino than it is with leucistic? I've had five batches of baby axolotls using different parents each time, and each time I get just about 50/50 for who looks like mom and who looks like dad. I just find it so bizarre that I didn't end up with any goldens,.

It did not work because your wild type probably is not carrying golden as a recessive. If you cross the juveniles back to the gold parent or to each other they should all be carrying the gold gene since one of their parents had it.

 

[Jossie]

Ok, firstly, wild type is always dominant.
No matter what the animal. To the point where it even has it's own symbol (+)

It is probably a heterozygous (+/m) female you have there (wild type x melanoid), while the male is a golden albino (a/a).
You should not get any golden axies from this cross, although it would be expected for you to get some melanoid albino (which you evidently don't have) if this was so.

Your 'albino' if he is white with pink eyes, is a white albino (w/a) or a melanoid albino (m/a). Albino axies are actually yellow.
If you breed him with her, and he's a melanoid albino you will most likely get wild types (3/4), and maybe a few melanoids(1/4). Or if he's a white albino you will get wild types (1/2), and a few white melanoids (?)(1/4) and melanoid albinos (1/4)
(expected proportions)

You would have to cross either a wild type that is +/a with an albino (you should have an expected 50/50 split of golden to wild type) or a the same, replacing the wild type with a melanoid (m/a) or white albino (w/a)

That said, I'm not an expert on axie genetics, so this may not be the way it works in them, but I'm pretty sure it is.
(the axolotl.org genetics page looks a bit wrong to me- I could be wrong but the d/d and D/D type thing looks wrong to me- It's only on one loci....)
But then again I'm getting a bit confused...

I have no idea what GFP is linked to, and it would depend on the gene it was linked to whether or not it would be expressed in the offspring.

Ironically I'm procrastinating about listening to the genetics lectures I missed.

Yeah. Is there such a thing as Golden Leucistic yet?

Yes, it's a white albino.

 

[satyrlike]

I'm a bit confused now. So, the only way to have a shot at getting goldens is to breed gold with gold and "maybe" some of them will turn out gold?

 

[Jossie]

If you breed goldens with goldens all of your offspring will be gold. You shouldn't get anything else.
If you breed a white or melanoid with another white or melanoid 1/4 off their offspring would be expected to be golden.
and if you breed anything that is a heterozygote with an 'a' allele with a golden you will get 50% golden

Unless axie colour genetics is more complex than basic genetics.

 

[satyrlike]

Now my brain hurts. hehe

 

[Kaysie]

Actually, if you breed goldens with goldens, all of your offspring will be ALBINO, but not all will be golden.

If both parents are recessive for melanoid or leucistic, you can also get white or melanoid albino (or a combination thereof) in addition to goldens.

Golden albino axolotls are D/x, meaning the color cells have migrated off the neural crest, rather than white albinos, who are d/d (or rather, they've got the leucistic pattern with the albino color). Golden is the dominant, where white albinos are recessive.

Axolotl genetics is no different than any other straightforward Mendelian genetics.

 

[michael]

How would genetically classify gfp? It isn't totally dominant but is not recessive. Is it partial dominant or something else?

 

[musilvr4eva]

Oh dear goodness. I think I'm understanding a little better now. So apparantly, I have to know the parents of the adults I want to breed to help in determining what the offspring will be like. I never would have thought of that, but then again, I didn't have an understanding of what a recessive gene was until now. I just figured that you could take this color and this color and get 50/50 on the offspring (wrong!).

Well I am a little bummed that I didn't get the gold GFPs that I was trying for, but I suppose I can wait for a few more months and then try my gold albino to my leucistic GFPs and see if that works, maybe, lol. Are golden albinos rarer than other colors or something if it takes specific colors to get them? And might I run into the 100% wild types if I do the wild type GFP with an albino? (Kinda talking out loud here, but I'm gonna guess it depends on the albino's parents, right?)

How do piebalds and harlequins come about? I may be buying some "piebalds" this weekend, but for all I know it's just a dirty leucistic. And especially since there are multiples of them, seems to good to be true! I'll have a pic as soon as my phone decides to send it. Gotta love technology!

~Emily~
musilvr4eva

 

[musilvr4eva]

Let me begin by saying how embarrassed I am with the algea in my tank! It doesn't look so bad until you take a photo and post it online lol. The first two pictures are of some of the babies, the spots on some of those are what confused me.

The third pic is of a "piebald" that a LFS (is it still local if it's 80 miles away? lol) has. They said they had ten of them, with this one being the most colorful. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated!

~Emily~
musilvr4eva

 

[michael]

It is to little to tell. That is kind of small for pet stores to be selling. I'd bet you 20.00 it doesn't turn out to be piebald.

 

[musilvr4eva]

It is to little to tell. That is kind of small for pet stores to be selling. I'd bet you 20.00 it doesn't turn out to be piebald.

I thought it was kind of small too. If it kept those colors into adulthood it would totally be worth it, but with my luck it will change. Plus sixty dollars for those little guys is costly!

~Emily~
musilvr4eva