Fresh blood in container.... HELP again!!!

C

celia

Guest
Howdy all, again... Okay to keep you up to date (previous posts, "Help, floating, not eating and swimming weird" and "Sydney people with love ..."

My beautiful boys are currently in the fridge, they seem a bit happier in there. I have been giving them regular salt baths and treating the tank while they are out of it. A fair bit of fungus has come away whilst getting salt baths, the littlest one (who is SO skinny it's awful) has a tiny bit of fresh blood in his container, he had done a few poos which was amazing given that he hadn't eaten in so long (I had been putting him in a fish fry baby food solution each day though) but now there is what I thought was like a blood worm poo but then realised was I'm pretty sure blood. I lifted up the container (he's in a really little one because in a big container he keeps falling onto his back and can't turn upright again) and had a look underneath and it's not like it's coming from his poo region, but maybe it is, it's fresh and red... can anyone help?

This is crazy, even in the fridge they seem to be getting sicker... what can I do?
 
I can't help with the blood, but have you tried force-feeding the little guy? (Has anyone here ever had to force-feed an axie?)

I don't know if this is good advice as I've never tried, but I think if I had one that was as skinny as your little one sounds, I would try forcing something into him. Go to the vet and ask for some cat catheters. They should give/sell them if you explain you're trying to feed a small animal. You'll also need some small syringes. Remove the needle so all you're left with is the catheter tube. Fill a syringe with liquifry or whichever fry food you've got, and attach the tube. Does he act interested in food AT ALL when he's not cold from the fridge? If he does, he might take the tube if you wiggle it- they're soft and may seem kind of worm-like from his point of view. If he won't take it, pull on a pair of gloves and try holding him gently so you can get the tube in his mouth. Hopefully he'll be cold enough from the fridge and weak enough from hunger not to struggle too much as you feed him. It might also be worth trying some kind of appetite stimulant? Soaking food in garlic oil works for finicky fish, so maybe a drop or two mixed with the fry food? Like I said, I don't know if it's good advice or not, but I would probably try anything at this point!

I'm not sure, but can't humans develop ulcers after long periods of starvation? Could it be something similar causing the blood in your axie? Or could he have swallowed gravel at some point and it's torn something inside?
 
It's possible he's swallowed gravel at some point for sure but I thought it would have passed by this point. I will try and force feed him, we've had this suggestion already from another friend of mine and the people at the pet shop thought it might be recommended as well.

I will give that a go. Should I do it while he's in the fridge since digestion is so slow? I should be building the fridge chiller some time in the next week, fingers crossed the weather stays backed off between Sunday (when they are due for coming out of the fridge, it will have been a week) and when I get the project finished.

I was just going to get the syringe (minus the needle) fill it with the liquifry stuff and squeeze it gently into his mouth (which he kind of keeps open anyways now)... worth a go?

Thanks Leah, you've been very helpful throughout mine and my babies' ordeal...
 
I would try it with the catheter tube attached to the syringe, just because you'll be able to get it in further. Hopefully that will make it harder for him to spit out? I was also thinking the tube because it's a soft rubber and maybe less likely to hurt his mouth if he fights? I don't know if it would be better to keep him in the fridge while force-feeding, but I think it would be easier to do when he's a bit sluggish. Since he's in a fragile state already, my main concern would be avoiding injury and more stress... but it could be good for him to digest things more quickly too. Maybe someone else knows?
 
When you're force feeding, make sure to squirt the food into the side of their mouth, not straight down. Axies still have lungs, and you could choke them or worse if it goes straight down their throat.
 
Thank you Brian, otherwise that's exactly what I would have done... if I use the catheter as Leah suggests would that be safer because you feed the tube down into his tummy first? What do people think?
 
I have tube fed baby pygmy goats, it was a struggle to say the least. I do not think I would want to try to get a tube into an axolotls stomach.

I would try getting the food into its mouth first and see if it would swallow it from there.
 
No problems Celia. I've had to force feed/tube feed a few animals before, and that usually is the first thing people do, resulting in a choking animal. Tube feeding eliminates this risk, but it has it's own problems too. I'd have to agree with Cynthia, I wouldn't want to tube feed an animal as small as an axolotl. Save that as a last resort. Animals usually swallow food in their mouths out of reflex, so try the force feeding first. Try to find someone who has force-fed an animal before, especially reptiles and amphibians, to help you out the first time. And be careful, you can easily injure the animal you are trying to help (or yourself with larger animals. Force feeding + 4 foot savanah monitor = 17 stitches in the hand!). What are you planning to force feed him?
 
Either brine shrimp in a little mushy paste or that stuff you get for baby fish, that fry type stuff, it's green. He did a green poo not long ago so I assume he had been swallowing that (I was putting him in little baths of food, I know this is probably bad for his gills but what's worse that or starving to death?)... do you think this will be all good?

I hope so. Wish me luck everyone....
 
Oh one extra thing though, he is SO skinny when he opens his mouth I can almost see down to his tail, for this reason I'm not so sure it would be that hard to get a tube in... mind you I'd prefer not to, he's traumatised enough already... what do we think everyone?
 
Go with what you're comfortable with
happy.gif
Have you given it a try with just the syringe yet? Best of luck!
 
The brine shrimp sounds like the best option. The green poo is a good sign that he's eating the other stuff. Keep us posted on hows he's doing.
 
Okay done the syringe thing, it's quite difficult to do, I basically have to hold him in one hand and then pop the syringe into the corner of his mouth and give a little squeeze. I then put him back in the tub. He seems to spit a bit of it out, here's hoping he got some. I bought some blood worms too so I might try them as well.

Question: The fungus wounds that Peter spoke of, does anyone know if they make the axi bleed a little after the fungus comes away, both of mine have little blood spots in their containers and I have realised that it's actually tiny little wounds on their bodies, mostly on their feet, does anyone know what this is? It's not from being in the fridge is it?

Cheers
Celia
 
hi celia,

one of my ax's did have a bit of bleeding from her snout. this did seem to be when the fungus had stripped away. the wound must have been extremely sensitive and the axi would dart off if i placed food in her face, the slightest touch of her face and she would go off.
consequently she either would smack her face in the glass, the ornaments or burrow into the gravel, this started a bit of bleeding.

i would think that wounds on their feet will take longer to 'repair' and consequently create a bit of bleeding.

my sick axi still has the red zones on her face where the fungus ate into. it still looks tender and raw and i reckon a knock on the gravel or logs will still create a bleed.
fortunately, she is getting better, she ate HUNGRILY last night so maybe a bit of nutrition will help healing. mine didn't eat for about 4 weeks prior to this.

i doubt the bleeding would be from being in the fridge unless your container has a sharp edge on it somewhere.
generally, colder temps reduces the rate of bleeding due to reduced peripheral circulation (in humans anyway).
check out the containers that you keep them in the fridge.
i used large ice-cream containers to keep them in the fridge (very confusing for little children to find ice-cream containers in the fridge, not freezer and especially no ice-cream) i found that some of the containers had a sharp bit of plastic sticking up in the middle. run your hand around your container and check.

good luck with the feeding and the treatments hope all goes well.

are you treating the tank water with anything whilst the axi's are in the fridge?

peter
 
I'm treating the tank water with PimaFix. I am also going to do the whole salt thing - cleaning all the plants etc) before I put them back in.

Is it okay for me to keep them there for another four days (it's been just on a week now). I go back to TAFE this week and their fungus is not better yet and it's still hot and that aquarium chiller is not made. I'd rather keep them there for four days than risk bringing them back into the heat and back to fungus problems since they are not entirely rid of it and my situation with the warm water should be sorted by the end of this week. Has anyone kept them in there for two weeks? Quite honestly apart from not eating they look a lot happier in the cold....

Cheers
C
 
Celia,

there is another site that has a lot of useful info on it.
this is the link. http://www.indiana.edu/~axolotl/axolotls/faq.html

scroll down to the 3rd answer on this page (about half way through it) they mention that they can keep their ill axi's refrigerated upto a month, i'm assuming they try to feed at some stage, but not sure as I didn't read all the info but at least you know that it can be done.

to be honest, Pimafix and Melafix is not all that good considering the money it costs.
I eventually gave in to a tri-sulpha tablet.

there is a list of safe and unsafe meds for axi's at this link:
http://www.axolotl.org/health.htm#list

amongst the OK meds there is Sulpha baths.

I treated the tank with it just before i put the ax's back in. have done this only once so far.

where are you getting your chiller made? i've looked around and can't find anything cheaper than $600ish

how's the bleeding going?

peter
 
I think you might have been right about the cuts, the containers have a little divet on them, finding something more appropriate tonight/tomorrow as I may have to buy something, everything seems to have that little circular spike at the bottom...

I am doing the DIY chiller project from a bar fridge, all in all if you can pick up a cheap bar fridge it's only another $100 or so on top of that for hoses and a pump... info here: http://www.aloha.net/~hqf/indexjrosechiller.htm this is the version with the freezer used as well. They look pretty good, then you just whack a heater in at 18 so they are at 18 all year round... ahh happy axies. I almost got one on e-bay for $500 the other day, they are SO expensive... this is why DIY has come on board.
 
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