Found Salamanders in a puddle

[ellena]

So today at my dads house I saw a huge puddle where he rides his quads and it seems water had formed in the tire tracks. Well so upon closer examination, the whole thing was FULL of tadpoles and some species of salamander although I dont know what kind. Question first off should I go back once a week and add water to keep it from drying up so they all have a chance or should I leave it alone? also do you know what species of salamander this is?

this is one of the babies that I had the eggs of a while back. I took one egg out of the case and kept it and returned the rest of the egg mass.

 

[jasmine]

Hey, I'm not an expert but I've been running around newt sites for several years now. Those look like Axolotls to me (sp?). handsome little guys. I wish there were newts just wandering about where I live.. of course there's too much concrete in LA for that. Anyhoo be sure to @ least check my guess you may find a clue.

 

[paris]

how bout some shots from the side? do you know what species live in your region? if not tell us you region and we can give you a list.

 

[ellena]

Ok just took some more. I live in the PNW in Vancouver, WA right across the river from Portland, OR. These guys were just found in a puddle and since we arent near Mexico or California I would say not Axolotl right?

They are Soooo cool looking though! Their gills are huge and fan-like!

Any ideas are great, id appreciate it.

 

[ellena]

Oh and I found this page with pics and it seems like it might be these guys:
Link to page with pics

which would be the same as the baby one that I have.

Ideas?

 

[ali]

I don't think Axolotls are native to that area, are they?

 

[william]

they look like ambystomatids, and if you found them on Vancouver then they are most probably ambystoma gracile or ambystoma macrodatylum:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_gracile.shtml

http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_macrodactylum.shtml

 

[joan]

Ellena, about the puddle: If you go back to refill it, the animals may survive, but as mother nature is sometimes quite cruel, naturally most of them will perish anyway, even if they survive the puddle ordeal. It would be interesting if you had another puddle nearby which you did not fill, and compared the metamorphose rate in the two.

It's theorized that some animals will morph faster when the water level drops quickly.

 

[jazz]

Yeah, WA isn't really near Mexico is it? *sigh* I'll go back to studying. Good luck figuring it out. When you do, lemme know, it might be fun to have some.

 

[ellena]

well I was going to go back and see if I can save some more. Is that ok or would it harm the environment? If so Id be willing to ship them to people if they are interested in them.

 

[mark]

Ellena, those look like Western Long-toed salamanders Ambystoma macrodactylum macrodactylum. Be aware that in our lovely state it is illegal to take into captivity any native amphibians or reptiles. So I wouldn't try to ship any out anyone. That "puddle" might actually be what is called a vernal pool. Salamanders usually breed in spots that are fairly stable year after year. Your Dad's riding though the pool will eventually destroy it and the salamanders and frogs will have lost a breeding site.

 

[ellena]

Well the puddle got started from him and my brothers riding in a muddy field. Over the years the ruts have gotten huge and then the puddles developed. Sadly, they are boys and dont care much for animals like I do so even though I asked them not to, they will still be riding through there. So I am to leave them there to die? Is it illegal even though you are saving them from absolute certain death? I can guarantee that they will be riding again this evening.

 

[john]

That's a tough choice. However, I would _guess_ that by riding through a salamander habitat and surely killing some each time, your father and brothers are probably committing a much bigger legal faux-pas than you are by trying to save them. Mark would know better than I.

You've already collected some and you want to save them. If you feel you must do something, I would advise you to have a look around the local area for a small pond (in a similar habitat) or such that doesn't appear to have larvae in it. You could then transfer these guys to that other pond.

Whatever decision you make, because of the legal issue you should return the larvae you have at home to the same area or even the tyre rut from where you got them.

 

[ellena]

Well there is a HUGE pond nearby but its FULL of large black fish. Im assuming thats why the salamanders and frogs decided to lay in the tire puddle instead of the pond.

Id love to save them and since the puddle is NOT going to give them a fighting chance should I try the pond and let them fend against the fishes?

 

[john]

That's frying pan and fire situation. I don't know. Anybody else have suggestions or ideas?

Depending on how big the tyre rut is, maybe you could dig a similar pool, but perhaps a little deeper, nearby?

 

[paris]

you could get a baby pool and set it up somewhere near by, that way once they morph they will crawl out and go on their merry (-ish...as long as they avoid the quad tires!) way. if it were me i would do it because although nature does have her ways, the amphibians already have the deck stacked against them by man-so a little intervention may help mitigate damage already done. keep the baby pool in the shade though and transfer some of the water with them so food items come with it.

oh yeah-what size are these guys?

(Message edited by paris on May 16, 2006)

 

[ellena]

I just called my dad and he doesnt want a wading pool at his place so looks like im going to have to move them to the pond and have them try their luck. They are just good ol country boys and dont care much about the habitat which is sad.

I tried.

 

[jim]

I would say if it is that important to you then dig a pond off the beaten track and see what happens. Maybe between some trees where the boys cant ride. Don't put them with the fish if you can avoid it.

 

[ellena]

Well for now I went and saved what I could. There are 17 (including the two from yesterday) and the puddle was almost dried and it was just mud and silt and ick. I found a lot dead and im thinking it is because it was 90+ here today and what was left of the water/mud was HOT.

So for now they will live in a huge rubbermaid with me. I got a bunch of Daphnia (sp?) from the pond and have a culture started plus they are in water teeming with them.

So ill watch them closely to see when they are starting to morph and in the meantime ill scout an area on the property to release them that is safe from the "boys" and thier "toys."

any other help or suggestions would be appreciated!

Thanks!


Heres more pics for those of you that like them. I hope nobody minds, I just am a little addicted to my camera.

 

[sharon]

Aw legalities aside I'm glad you are trying to save them. Good luck!