Found eggs NW Washington. Pics!

[knifegill]

I can see tiny gills on these, I'm assuming they are salamander. The green algae inside the eggs is characteristic of salamanders - according to my three hours of poking around the web! I'm such a noob at amphibians! Anyway, there were found above water attached to a stick at the bridge of a natural beaver dam in Wa. Ambystoma species? Will I need to hatch and rear some to be sure?

This egg mass is very firm, harder than jello - and the one that popped out is doing fine so far, he wiggles if I gently disturb him...which I don't do now - but did to make sure he survived the trip. And two of the eggs are rotting. Should I try to extract them?

I've got daphnia, cyclops, ostracods and gammarus in the dish, and am culturing more in the backyard. I also added a tiny bit of crushed coral to buffer the pH and provide hardness - was that necessary? It's what I do for my fish...

This is my first non-frog egg mass. Any tips are appreciated. Temp is about 55F and there is no agitation of water, just a huge tray with lots of surface area and a floating ramp at the ready. Hoping for some neotenics to keep with my axolotl!

 

[knifegill]

Might be spotted salamander or Northwest Salamander?

 

[Aneides]

They could be either Western Long-toed Salamander (Ambystoma macrodactylum macrodactylum) or a Northwestern Salamander (Ambystoma gracile) eggs. Most certainly rule out Dicamptodon and Rhyacotriton sp.

Aneides

 

[knifegill]

With ambystoma, I am almost sure to end up with a neotenic individual (neotenite?) or two, right? And thanks so much for your help!

I take it I won't be able to ID until they have hind legs?

 

[otolith]

Certain species and populations are more prone to neoteny than others. I would be surprised if you ended up with any neotenic adults, especially since the species id is still up in the air. I would also advise against putting anything in with your axolotl (except of course other axolotls), there are a great many risks with species mixing as well as the threat of introduced parasites or fungus from the wild salamanders.

Good luck raising the eggs, interested to see what you've found

 

[knifegill]

They're hatching!!!

 

[knifegill]

Well, they were. Should I cut the eggs open to get a good hatch rate?

 

[asfouts]

No leave the eggs be, and let them do their thing. The dead or unfertilized eggs will become fodder for new hatchlings anyway, also green algae attaches to frog eggs as well. I had it on my northern red legs. My frogs hatched a week ago and have tripled in size. Just leave them in a still tank and do small water changes as to not disturb the eggs. Im sure you know not to use tap waterThe egg clutch looks more like the northwestern salamander (ambystoma gracile) to me. The long toe usually lays its eggs loosely on a stick, hard packed jelly masses are more characteristic of ambystoma gracile. Also longtoed salamanders eggs are distinct from one another, I believe that you have ambystoma gracile... If the eggs were hatched you would be more confused as the tadpoles look identical with long toes up until metamorphosis. Unless you have a microscope handy. You are right on with the daphnia and cyclops, alot of people think ALL tadpoles eat algae and plant matter, when in fact some are even cannibilistic. Go to bigger invertebrates as the tads age or anneides (worms) mixed with your daphnia and cyclops

Hope this helps. Would be cool if you got neotonic individuals.

 

[knifegill]

Thank you so much!

 

[knifegill]

And for your reward, pics!

Taken through an old projector lens, virtually no depth of field. Tough to get even these. Little guy is maybe 1/2" long.

 

[asfouts]

Sweet keep posting progress! You are rather lucky to have found ambystoma gracile... Unless its just me. I always got Ambystoma macrodactylum macrodactylum or Psuedacris regilla. This is my first time with Rana aurora aurora? (I always forget northern red legged frogs scientific name). That shrimp looks to big haha, but your tadpole should double in size feeding from the remnants of its egg sack. My tads are about dime sized now. Keep up the good work

 

[Jennewt]

Based on the size and description of the egg mass, I would guess that they are Ambystoma gracile (Northwest salamander). Good luck with them!

 

[FrogEyes]

I have to concur. A.gracile lays bigger clutches, while A.macrodactylum tends to lay small clutches or single eggs, so they're likely the former.

This is my first time with Rana aurora aurora? (I always forget northern red legged frogs scientific name).

It's Rana aurora, no subspecies. Rana draytoni isn't the same species and isn't in fact directly related to it either. If memory serves, R.cascadae and R.aurora are closest kin, excluding R.draytoni.

 

[knifegill]

Alright, let's talk legality. Can I have these?! Can I sell them? Am I stuck with 50 salamanders barring cannibalism?

 

[asfouts]

Nope you cant sell these guys since they were wild caught. You will have to return all but 4 to the original place you found them. Under washington legislature you can only keep 4 specimens of a species and if you are over 16 you must have a permit to own them. The F1 generation can be sold since they would be considered captive breed, but the parents. Dont worry about cannibalism haha just feed them!

 

[Otterwoman]

Do you keep other salamanders? Perhaps it's not a good idea to return them to the wild if they have been exposed to captive salamanders.