Floating pleurodeles waltl

[the]

My recently aquired PW is floating around....
He is struggling every now and then to get to the bottom but it seems impossible.
He is one of my biggest, I have 6, and seems alright(besides floating around!!!). He ate yesterday, no problem then. The tank is about 21C and 160 liters, the NWs are youngsters the whole bunch(about 5-7cm). There should be no pH problem, we have "hard water" here and the setup is only 5 days old. I Have put an additional CaSO4
block in to buffer the pH. I have a good filter. I have not put in the oxygenpump yet but will soon. The tank seems huge for them so there can be no overcrowding problem. I have neutralised chlorine(conditioner). Can't think of anything else..
I have added denitrifying bacteria.

HELP!!! What should I do about my newt?? Is it an infection? Bacteria/Virus? Parasite?
It can't be kidney problems can it? He aint bloated.

 

[joeri]

I remember my Pleuro's floating around all day as well when they were kiddies. I don't think there is a problem. Maybe you could provide them with a small landarea / floating plants.

Good luck with them

 

[the]

The problem is that they are activly trying to get down but aren't able to. It's not the normal "hey, lets float for a while"-behavior. I have seen this happend before, then the newts died.
I suspect it is gas bubble disease but I dont know what to do about it. I have shut down the filter and turned off the light.

 

[the]

Gas Bubble Disease

This disease occurs in aquatic amphibians when the water is supersaturated with gas, and is then "breathed in" through the amphibian's skin, causing a buildup of oxygen gas in the bloodstream. Excessive aeration of the water will lead to this, as well as the immediate use of tap water with a high dissolved gas rate.
Symptoms: bubbles begin to appear in the webbing on skin and feet; floating/inability to stay submerged; difficulty eating; lessening of mucous coating; hemorrhaging or skin ulcers.
Treatment: A more gentle water circulation system should be used (or none at all). Let tap water stand at least 24 hours before adding it to the aquarium -- dechlorinator will not help with dissolved gasses.

I already have a gentle water circulation though!!

 

[john]

I like this little bit of fiction to explain these symptoms (I know you didn't write it Swede, don't worry).

Here are two common reasons that come to mind to explain floating aquatic newts and salamanders:<ul>[*]Animal has swallowed air and it's somewhere in its digestive tract <LI>There is a build up of gas in the gut due to increased bacterial activity[/list]The main problem with floating itself is that it stresses the animal because it can't get "down" from the water surface and keeps floating back up. Animals left like this often get so stressed by it that they may develop a disease after a number of days. I suspect that's what you've seen before Swede.

The first problem usually solves itself if the animal is fed a lot of food every day for a few days - this seems to help it clear its digestive tract of excess air. This problem is more common in larvae than juveniles.

The second problem is often caused by high temperatures leading to overactive bacterial flora in the gut or it's a secondary symptom of bacterial septicemia. If it's just a matter of high temperature, by fixing that you will more than likely resolve the floating problem. If it's bacterial septicemia then you will need to get antibiotics.

I would think that in your own case Swede the problem is fairly minor.

The best way to relieve the stress of floating is to remove the animal to a vessel with very shallow water in which the animal can always touch the bottom. A few days like this and a good feeding regimen will usually see the animal right.

 

[the]

Voila!
http://www.klsnet.com/sickamph.html
Theres loads of info on this subject for fishes.
I would have seen through it if I wasnt this stressed out about the newts. Thanks!
I'm really pissed about the above website now! Theres not much info about newts around so we dont need that kind of BS.

 

[john]

I know which web site contained that info - that's why I said I know you didn't write it. I think a lot of web site owners think that if they don't know the answer to something they can just make some thing up.

 

[rancidevilpingu]

livingunderworld.org, i read that.

 

[justin]

i used to have the odd spanish ribbed that floated as well what have you been feeding them . but the newts always recovered fully after a few days justin

 

[john]

Re: livingunderworld.org, I'm disappointed that Jessica has that info on her site. Hopefully she'll correct it.

 

[j.]

The info on livingunderworld.org came from the original site named above. It'll be corrected as soon as I find where it is.

 

[j.]

Okay, I can't find that material on livingunderworld.org. Swede, could you please let me know exactly where that text is?

Thanks,
Jessica

 

[j.]

Swede, I checked every possible place on livingunderworld.org for that text, and it isn't there. I think you are mistaken about where you read that material. First, I would never write that, or let it get uploaded to livingunderworld.org, and second, you quoted http://www.klsnet.com/sickamph.html word for word. There are some references to that site on livingunderworld.org, but if the text you are referring to were on livingunderworld.org, it would be blatant plagiarism.

About the P. waltl. I have seen mine floating on the surface when the temperature gets a little warm, but they don't have a problem submersing. I would do what John said, and put them in a shallow container and monitor their behavior.

Jessica

 

[the]

Hi!
I haven't said anything about livingunderworld.org, it was rancidevilpingu... I just put up the link to klsnet. You people shouldn't listen to rancid evil pingus!

On the matter of temperature...
I keep the temp around 21C range 18-23. It has never been above 23. Most of the time it is below 21. I am very well aware of the suitable temperature for my newts, that cannot be the problem. I think it's a bacterial problem, the petshop didnt keep them properly, too warm, too bright, too much current and with fish.
He even thought his adults were another species...
They are so much bigger you know! Can't be the same thing! Hehe.. I am preparing a care sheet for him...

What kind of antibiotics do you recommend? What dose(concentration in water I suppose..)
Are there resistance problems?

Hey I'd appreciate any info on p.waltl you have!
Been searching the net and several forums and their archives and not come up with much!
Just the ordinary stuff. I'd like a scientific twist if possible, like growth factors, breathing mechanism, general physiology, which substances are crucial for survival, growth rate, your experiences of best mixtures of food. Anything!

Right now I just feed them frozen mosquitolarva(translated literally), looks like bloodworms(larval stadge of the midgefly(?)). I suppose they need a variety of food just like every other animal...

Jesper(the swede)

 

[rancidevilpingu]

hey,i could of sworn it was on livingunderworld, but it isnt

 

[the]

Update:
2 out of 3 in quarantine seems somewhat better, they are actively searching for food. The 3rd one doesnt move at all, curls up in a strange position, he eats only if given food exactly in front of mouth. Should I give him antibiotics? What kind? What dose? I'm studying pharmacy by the way so I'm keen on treating my first newt...

I know tetracycline is popular when treating fish.
That pretty much sums up my knowledge about non-human pharmacotherapy. Newts should absorb through their skin right? Well if they can breathe through it they should be able to absorb drugs through it(?)
That probably means major risks for overdosing(?)

 

[jesper]

update:
2 out of 3 is now behaving naturally, I have put them out of the quarantine. One is still floating though.

 

[jesper]

After 4 nights and 3 days of floating the third one is now alright, somewhat skinny though(stress...). I'm going to start feeding them chopped earthworms.