Fire salamander friends...

[MorganLCFowler]

I have a Fire salamander and I'm hoping to get some more Fire tank mates for him in the coming weeks. My concern is that he has proven to be not so social with my other salamanders so far. I have a pair of Marbled that I put in with him and I thought it would be ok because they are not really to terribly much smaller, but he was not very nice and kept looking at them with a threatening posture and a bad attitude. I was pretty sure nothing would happen because its a 25 gallon tank with plenty of places to hide but I didn't want to take any chances. Also, I took into consideration that my Fire loves big juicy earth worms and here are these to smaller, dark, slimy creatures in his territory. Not a good idea. So I removed the two Marbled because they are best buddies and I would hate to see something happen to one of them and then the other one grieve the loss of its partner. They do everything together. So, what I'm wondering is..... If I put other Fire salamanders in with him, that are closer to his size is he going to be as anti-social with them too? Are Fire salamanders usually social/ good tank mates? If he doesn't accept tank mates at the first introduction is it likely that he will acclaimated to them eventually, or is it best to go ahead and get them out of dodge? If a salamander is aggressive towards another and its not small enough to be consumed can/ will the aggressor still significantly injure or kill it? Any advice or comments are welcomed and appreciated. Thanks, Morgan L.C. Fowler

 

[Azhael]

I´m glad to hear you separated them. There are a variety of solid reasons why mixing species is not a good idea, and it goes well beyond stress or territorial incompatibilities. You have to consider the possibility of patogen exchange, as well as parasites, differences in toxicity, and then of course aggression, competition, etc.
I strongly recommended not mixing species again, it produces no benefits for the animals, only marginal ones for you, and it always comes at a risk, inevitably.

As for keeping fire salamanders in groups, it´s certainly possible, but they are not entirely free of territorialism. Sufficient space, as well as a plentiful variety of hiding opportunities, are essencial to avoid conflict. It is also possible, that even with those conditions, some individuals may not coexist well together. Fire salamanders have been known to show territorial responses even to the point of mild aggression. This causes stress and can have serious consequences in the subordinate´s health. Severe physical aggression is very unlikely in this species, and i don´t think it has ever been documented. Cannibalism is possible, but only if size differences are huge. More frequently, they do just fine, without apparent problems and even showing a certain degree of gregariousness. But territorialism is an eventuality that has to be considered.
If you do get more animals, remember to quarantine them adequately.

Another point, while i´m sure you would regret it if something happened to one of your sallies, it´s not fair to say the surviving one would mourn anything or grieve. These are not social creatures and they don´t form any significant bonds. They are largely solitary and frequently territorial to various degrees. In the best situations, the most you can say is that they tolerate each other. It may be nice to think that they do hold such bonds, but it´s nothing but fantasy.

 

[markrimn]

I have a Fire salamander and I'm hoping to get some more Fire tank mates for him in the coming weeks. My concern is that he has proven to be not so social with my other salamanders so far. I have a pair of Marbled that I put in with him and I thought it would be ok because they are not really to terribly much smaller, but he was not very nice and kept looking at them with a threatening posture and a bad attitude. I was pretty sure nothing would happen because its a 25 gallon tank with plenty of places to hide but I didn't want to take any chances. Also, I took into consideration that my Fire loves big juicy earth worms and here are these to smaller, dark, slimy creatures in his territory. Not a good idea. So I removed the two Marbled because they are best buddies and I would hate to see something happen to one of them and then the other one grieve the loss of its partner. They do everything together. So, what I'm wondering is..... If I put other Fire salamanders in with him, that are closer to his size is he going to be as anti-social with them too? Are Fire salamanders usually social/ good tank mates? If he doesn't accept tank mates at the first introduction is it likely that he will acclaimated to them eventually, or is it best to go ahead and get them out of dodge? If a salamander is aggressive towards another and its not small enough to be consumed can/ will the aggressor still significantly injure or kill it? Any advice or comments are welcomed and appreciated. Thanks, Morgan L.C. Fowler

Just a bit down the page from this post is a post that pretty much addresses mixing species.
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...s-keeping-amphibs-dont-mix-species-topic.html

And yes, if territorial even if of equivalent size they can severely injure or kill each other.

They don't need tank mates, that is purely for your benefit. If you want a few more salamnders, I would maybe get a smaller enclosure for the territorial aggressive one, and fully clean and sterilize the 25 gallon, and add the new ones to it.