Eurycea lucifuga rock wall enclosure

[onetwentysix]

For a while, I've been wanting a nice tank for my Eurycea lucifuga. I'd been sitting on a 38 gallon tank that had broken during my move, and decided maybe I might be able to convert it into a functional tank with a little work. It was all cracked on the back side, so it'd never hold much water again, but I figured I didn't have anything to lose.

I started off by laying it on the cracked part and siliconed the entire side, or at least most of it and all of the cracked half, which took a whole tube of silicone. I then let it cure overnight.

I came back the next day and covered the back with Great Stuff expanding foam. I ran out but got half of the tank done, and after it had hardened up slightly, I added some rocks I'd collected and baked the previous night. Some flat pieces I placed directly on top of the foam, and others I placed so they stuck out of the foam like a ledge. I let this cure overnight.

The next night, I had two more cans and got to work. I finished the other half, and put some more rocks in all over, mostly for ledges. And then I let it cure overnight, and came back the next day and added some supports for the rocks with GS. I didn't want to stand it up and have the heavy rocks come crashing down. Once I was sure everything was securely in place, the GS part was done. All my rocks were in place and good to go.

However, GS looks pretty ugly and unnatural, so I took silicone and working in small sections, covered all the exposed GS with silicone, and then packed dried peat moss into the silicone. I let this sit overnight, and then removed what peat I could and vacuumed the rest off. I then went and touched up spots I missed, or spots that didn't take to the moss well, and repeated this for three nights. Finally, it was done.

Of course, I had to move it. 38 gallon tanks are heavy, and adding a bunch of rocks to it doesn't help. As I was lifting it, the weight was too much for one of the small sides and it cracked. I siliconed this off, and it wasn't bad, but it was disappointing and ruined the aesthetic a bit. I tried to lift it, but I was being extra careful not to stress any one side and that care and messing around was too much. Not sure what exactly happened, but I busted my hand up pretty good, either by bringing the tank down on my hand or by scraping it on the concrete. I gave up for the night, and then came back today and finally managed to get it onto the table it was going to (hand's fine now by the way, not a serious injury, just an annoyance that ruined my typing for a day or two).

Once it was up, I could get things going. I vacuumed out all the remaining peat that wasn't stuck to the wall, used a razor to clean the tank walls, and then added gravel and larger rocks to provide a land area. I then added a bit of water to the bottom, hooked up a pump to a plastic tube inside the great stuff, and wound up with this:

Not the best quality photo, my apologies; the glass isn't the cleanest, it's pretty wet, and the lighting in my basement is awful.

It didn't work out exactly like I wanted; there's still too many exposed GS portions, and a lot are in places I just couldn't get to. In hindsight, a 38 gallon tank was an awful choice for this project; they're so tall that you can't get your hands in well to work with the silicone and spread it around. But it's functional, and I think the lucifuga will do well in it; it looks a lot like habitat I saw in Arkansas. There's a tiny trickle of water on the left that seems to be working nice, maybe I'll get some java moss or something to grow on those wet rocks. I need more land area on the bottom though; they're not an aquatic species, though they're good swimmers. I'll get a few rocks, maybe lower the water level, and mess with a few more things, and then I'll introduce the animals. Hopefully, the tank will work well and I'll get some breeding in it eventually.

This is the third time I've done a tank like this, and each time I do one they get better, so this kinda thing takes practice, and I'm getting there, but I just wanted to share the technique. If you do try this, be sure to silicone the sides around the GS really well; if water gets behind it, the whole wall can come off. Driftwood also works instead of rocks (as is commonly used for dart frogs) too. Also, be sure to wear gloves; I did the first two nights but ran out afterward. My thumb still has yellow on the nail that I can't get off from the GS, and I had a huge problem with silicone on my fingers after each session (I used plastic bags as makeshift gloves, but this doesn't work the best).

I'll try to post photos of the lucifuga after I get them in there.

Anyhow, there's my tank, it's a real useful technique for climbing salamanders. I'd imagine longicauda, guttolineata, Aneides, and other salamanders might do really well in this kind of a set up.

 

[Yahilles]

It looks very good, but i would but there some mosses in places where stones go out of foam to make more natural look and create more hiding places for Euryceas.

 

[lims]

I think you might have accidently dropped your ipod into the tank...

 

[Greatwtehunter]

I think you might have accidently dropped your ipod into the tank...

Hahahahaha

Seriously though, Peter the tank looks great. Oh I should mention this, but I am sure your aware of this, but you'll probably need to keep an eye on your ph. Everytime I have used peat with the great stuff it has changed the ph for a little while, nothing a few water changes can't fix though.

 

[Greewok]

Hey Peter,

How many lucifuga do you have? Do you consider this a hard species to raise? I know a place that has three for sale, I keep thinking about snagging them when I go there next.

 

[Nathan050793]

I remember you telling me about this...it turned out nice! Those lucifuga will like it, that I'm sure of- it looks like habitat I have found longicauda in.

 

[Jennewt]

That's a really awesome way to make use of a cracked tank. Looks nice.

I have a question for you, or anyone who has used Great Stuff. Is it possible to cut the GS after it has cured? I would like to be able to carve out a depression to fit a specific water dish. What is the best tool to use to carve the stuff?

 

[Kaysie]

I used just an old paring knife to cut my great stuff. It wasn't awesome, but it did the job.

 

[Greatwtehunter]

I like to use a dremel to do my carving put then again I just like using power tools.:lol:

 

[Kaysie]

I just like using power tools.:lol:

As if one needs an excuse! heehee

 

[tritonfin]

Great tank!

 

[onetwentysix]

Thanks for the comments everyone. The water's clearing up nice I don't have a line of peat moss at the water level anymore, so the filter has taken care of all of that. I've added more rocks on the bottom to make it more of a stream as opposed to a pond. I'm keeping an eye on the pH levels, but I don't have a clue as to what lucifuga would prefer; I'd imagine they'd get a lot of higher pH levels from limestone in caves, etc., but then they're also in habitats where pH would be lower (moss, decaying leaves, etc). I'll probably see about adding the animals later the week. I feel bad for them, their old tank doesn't have much for rocks anymore since they've been used to make the newt setup.

I'll probably end up turning their old 20 or a cracked 30 I've got upstairs into a tank for my guttolineata once if I get some spare funds in the future, I'll try to take photos and document the process.

GS can be cut really easily, even use a serrated knife if you need to. Be sure to silicone it over well though, since there are all sorts of tiny holes and such and water could potentially seep in and damage the integrity of the structure. You could even design the whole wall out of GS, cutting pieces to fit, etc.

I don't remember if it was Jake or Justin, but in the chat he mentioned that you can build the whole thing on a foam piece cut to size outside of the tank, and then just slide it int the tank and silicone it in well and then you're set. That sounds like an easier way to do things, and much easier to get into the crevasses and such.

Yahilles, mosses might be a good option, but I'm probably going to avoid it, except maybe some java moss. I don't like using moss, because of the negative effects of ripping moss out of the wild can have. Moss isn't necessary for them; the animals I got came from a moss wall near a cave, but they'll do just fine with just rocks, etc. Here's a photo from Arkansas of a lucifuga, and the look I was going for:

lims, hehe, yeah. I originally wanted to put the filter into a box and bury it under the gravel, but had problems getting it to pump the water that way. I'll have to be creative I think. I'm a bit worried about the possibility of it sucking up and larvae that might occur in there, so maybe I'll make some sort of screened in box. I've got a while before I might get that lucky to worry about that, though.

Greewok, I have four lucifuga. They're not too hard, they eat fruit flies, roaches, waxworms, and such really well. They're very prone to escape though; I've had plenty of scares. One time, I went to check if they were all alive and well and only found three. I searched all over in the tank, and was about to write the animal off as having escaped, when I noticed that he was under the lid part when I'd opened the tank, starring at me like I was an idiot. They're fast, can climb upside down, and can get into the tiniest cracks. I don't know that I'd buy from the place you know of though, I guess I'm not too keen on the idea of WC lucifuga being offered for sale; the habitats they live in can easily be damaged by collectors, and if they're taken from the caves they've been collected illegally. If you can collect some lucifuga, longicauda, or guttolineata locally, I'd greatly recommend that instead. I've actually been thinking about writing a caresheet for lucifuga, since I've had people e-mail me about them and there isn't anything online about them, but I don't know.

They're my favorite terrestrial salamander right now, and I'm really hoping they'll breed, though the long larval period of Eurycea is a bit daunting if it does happen.

 

[Otterwoman]

That reminds me of the woodland sals exhibit at the Toledo zoo.

It was like that and also had water seeping.

 

[slowfoot]

Lovely tank and beautiful sals!

I don't remember if it was Jake or Justin, but in the chat he mentioned that you can build the whole thing on a foam piece cut to size outside of the tank, and then just slide it int the tank and silicone it in well and then you're set. That sounds like an easier way to do things, and much easier to get into the crevasses and such.

This. Definitely.

If and when I do another background using GS and silicone, this is definitely the way I'll go. I simply had not anticipated how hard it would be to reach into and under the GS to get silicone in all the little cracks... while wearing gloves. I ended up having to do something that looked like I was playing Twister with a mirror in one hand and glove loaded up with silicone on the other.

That rock wall looks fantastic though - probably well worth it

 

[Greatwtehunter]

I do use the foam, it's alot easier to work with than the Great Stuff. Plus it doesn't shrink after you silicone it in. I use a paring knife to get the rough design, then use my trusty dremel to do the finishing work. It cuts out about 2 days of work by using the foam instead of GS.

 

[onetwentysix]

I introduced the animals into the enclosure today, and got a few photos. The first one is the best, but the water on the glass messed the shot up a bit, unfortunately. I tried to get it from above, avoiding the glass, but that didn't turn out too well, unfortunately.

It looks decent I guess, I can imagine finding them in the wild in a situation like they're in. Now I just need to get some java moss growing on the rocks and I should be set.

 

[Jake]

The tank and animals look great, Peter. What temperature are you keeping the group at for winter?

 

[onetwentysix]

Everyone downstairs is at outside temperature, plus 5 degrees roughly. Generally, my basement has been between 35-60, usually more towards the colder end. I'm really optimistic that it'll trigger breeding in some of my harder to breed animals, but we'll see.

 

[taherman]

Good luck with the lucifuga, I've had breeding groups set up for years but can't seem to get the females to lay their eggs. They yolk up and get huge this time of year, but never seem to drop them. They make awesome captives, but I'm missing something in their reproduction. Let me know if you figure something out.

The attached paper has some good info, they suggest oviposition is tied to reduced water flow through the caves in late summer.

There's great stuff and silicone in the "dirt" areas of the exhibit Dawn posted. Shrinkage in there left 1" gaps all over the place. I'm just hoping the glutinosus lay eggs in the ones I missed

-Tim

 

[killerfrogss]

thats a cool tank, gave me an idea for one im doing.