European Coppers, what do the young larvae look like?

[JessKB]

Hey guys,
I got a copper axolotl last year when they were imported to the US and I have recently bred it with one of my wild types. The eggs are near hatching, but I am concerned because they all look like wild types. While researching copper axolotls, I've seen that many of the juveniles do look a little like wildtypes, and seem to get paler as they get older. However, I can't find pictures of copper axolotls at the stage that I have them now. So my question is, do very young coppers look like wild types? Is it even possible to have a clutch of just wild types?

Male Copper x female wildtype

I know coppers are rare in the US right now, but please don't contact me for eggs, I'm not shipping them.

Here's the best pictures I could get. Their container makes photographing them a nightmare.

 

[Neil C]

Here's a thread with the development of some European copper eggs,

http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...gs-larvae-breeding/69043-enlongated-eggs.html

If you bred your copper with a wildtype then there is a high chance that you will only get wildtype babies. As coppers have only recently arrived in the US it's practically impossible for your wildtype to carry the copper gene so therefore no copper babies. You would have been much better off to breed your copper with an albino(both recessive). You should breed your babies back to the father (when they old enough) to start to see the copper expressed again.

Regards Neil

 

[JessKB]

I have a female golden albino I could breed with him. I am not very good with genetics. If I mix the copper with the golden albino, what would my ratios be like? Would all the wildtypes from this clutch be het for copper? If I bred two of them together would copper come out of them?

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[Alkylhalide]

I have a female golden albino I could breed with him. I am not very good with genetics. If I mix the copper with the golden albino, what would my ratios be like? Would all the wildtypes from this clutch be het for copper? If I bred two of them together would copper come out of them?

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Im not sure how the genetics in axolotls go but my guess if you have two that are breeding that are recessive genes, so GG and CC(Golden and copper)

In my head I would think it would be a 50/50 chance. I dont know how two different recessive genes would work? Which is more prominant?

 

[Neil C]

Golden x copper should give 50/50 assuming no other hidden genes come into play. As far as I know all mutations are equally recessive except GFP (not a mutation I know) which is dominant. Your baby wildtypes will bet het for copper so you could breed them together and see coppers reappear again.


Regards Neil

 

[Alkylhalide]

See. At cc and gg so your offsprings would be cg cg cg cg for the gene, if both are recessive how does one know what their phenotypes would be. I have a weird feeling albino would still be prominant makin it so their offsprings at cg would need to breed again with another offspring carryin the golden gene in order to see it. And even then unless you breed it with a cc it would be a low probability. On the other hand after a second generation would would have the copper gene successfully into the captive population, and if you did give away the babies you rear(any of them that could have the recessive gene) then coppers would be more prevelant around there

 

[Kaysie]

If you breed two albinos (no matter which type), all of your offspring will be albino. If copper is a recessive trait, like Neil said, all of your offspring will be carriers unless your other albino is recessive for copper, which I don't think is true in this case.

 

[JessKB]

If you breed two albinos (no matter which type), all of your offspring will be albino. If copper is a recessive trait, like Neil said, all of your offspring will be carriers unless your other albino is recessive for copper, which I don't think is true in this case.

So it is possible to get copper albinos from a copper x golden albino mix on the first generation? or will the offspring only carry the gene and have to be mixed or bred back to the father?

 

[Kaysie]

I think your F1 will all be carriers, and none will display copper. You'll need to breed your F1's back to each other, or back to the copper parent to get F2 coppers.

 

[Morrison]

I might be wrong but a girl who breeds coppers says that you only get coppers when you have a copper male and female. Not sure about that, maybe someone on this forum who breeds coppers can tell me if I'm right or wrong.

I can remember a picture of young coppers, few days old. They weren't very dark or wildtypeish like the ones in the picture. But the sad thing is that I can't find it. My copper juvies were more pinkish brown when they were about 6 cm, now they're more copper looking every day.

 

[Kaysie]

That would be correct. Since copper is a recessive trait, if you breed 2 together, you'll get only coppers (barring other recessive traits).

 

[JessKB]

I might be wrong but a girl who breeds coppers says that you only get coppers when you have a copper male and female.

If you breed only copper to copper you will get 100% copper, but I don't think you have to breed two coppers to get more.

 

[mikeg]

Just wondering you said if you breed a copper with a albino you will also get a copper offspring, will this also occur with a lucistic and copper since they are both light colors ???

I am waiting for a copper to come from axolotl canada and was hoping to breed with my leucistic male so i can have copper and leucistic offspring but after reading this im not so sure if i want to anymore

 

[Kaysie]

Michael, you won't get copper offspring unless you breed either 2 coppers, or two adults who are both carriers of the copper gene. Offspring need to inherit a copy from both parents to display the copper gene.

Leucism is an entirely different gene. That's comparing apples to pineapples. They may appear superficially similar, but the two traits are in no way related.

You will need to breed your offspring to each other, or back to the copper parent to get copper larvae.

 

[mikeg]

Oh okay, i thought i understood i can only get the offspring copper if i beed with a lighter colored morphs or two coppers. il buy two coppers then :happy: thanks for clearing that up for me

 

[frogman]

Hey, I no this is off topic, but if you breed a gold with a copper! Could you hook me up with some eggs. I would really like to add a copper to my collection.

Thanks

Evan

 

[Alkylhalide]

You can breed any color with a copper and all the offsprings will have the copper genotype, although none of them will show the color. If you breed say a wild type with the copper gene and a leucistic with the copper gene, you will have a very low chance/amount of copper babies. I think your best bet would be to breed a albino with a copper, and with those offsprings either breed them with one another or you could also breed them with the batch that came fron the wild type/copper. Either way by generation two you should have some copper colors showing(maybe not many, but some)

 

[michael]

Is copper a simple recessive gene? Are the Australian coppers the same as the European ones?

 

[michael]

From my out crosses and back crosses it does appear that copper is a simple recessive.