Cynops mixing

J

jesper

Guest
Hi,
I was wondering if someone had accounts of mixing different cynops species. I know Tim is mixing pyrrhogaster with ensicauda and this seems to be alright, right Tim?
Anyway I was thinking of mixing orientalis with ensicauda which is a more risky because of their different sizes. I know I am probably going to run into opposition against this....
1. People will tell me they need different setups at different temps.
However, I have had them in similar setups both at 21C - both species seem happy, my orientalis has recovered from his pet shop illness and are doing fine(he has finally started eating).

How about toxins? Anyone know of any compatibility problems?

My main question are however if anyone has run into cynops species being aggressive towards eachother? Haven't found any such accounts.
 
Oops, maybe these questions should be in the fire-belly section..... Don't get angry John!
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I think they are of general interest though so I am not really sure where to put it.....
 
Hi Jesper,

I think it is not good to mix different species from different parts of the world.
We do not know enough about the effects of newt toxins, how compatible they are to different bacteria, and if it means stress for them, to contact with unknown species.
I think it is no problem for some month, but could be for some years.

Paul
 
I really couldn't say, Jesper. I mean, I do it in two of my tanks not because I want to but for logistical reasons, having had to scale down the number of my tanks after getting hitched
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I'd never recommend others set up "community tanks" for newts just because I haven't experienced any problems yet. Mine certainly don't appear to be stressed, but I would imagine something as small as orientalis might get stressed. So I wouldn't try that myself. As for coming into contact with foreign bacteria, well, that happens as a matter of course when keeping newts in captivity -- through the feeding of live food, the introduction of plants to the tank, through human contact, through the use of nets also used in other tanks, etc. But sure, Paul has a good point, better safe than sorry. I might add that I have 5 tanks with nothing but pyrrhogaster in them, and they've never been mixed. Anyway, good luck with them!
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Hi cynopspeople,
Thanks for the advise.
I was merely trying it out for half an hour under strict supervision. The orientalis juvenile who had lived in the tank for a couple of days, was really pissed off when I dropped four c.e.e. in his tank - they were about twice his size - so what did he do?
He went around chasing them biting them in their heads, the ensicauda more or less tried ignoring him. He seemed pretty stressed by their presence so I put him in his own tank.
End of experiment.
 
Personally, I would keep them separate. If you have a compelling need to mix them, wait until both species are "long-term captives". C. orientalis often come home from the pet shop with all sorts of nasty diseases. I would allow at least several months in captivity. And didn't you just get the ensicauda? You are taking too much risk of contagious disease, in my opinion.
 
Yeah, I know Jen. The orientalis was a long term captive. The ensicauda was recent, however I got them from a breeder so they were in very good condition and diseasefree. They were cb adults/subadults. Btw, I have got at least one adult male who is currently in breeding condition!
His cloaca is really swollen, I can see papillae and he's chasing around two of the others which I believe to be adult females. I think the forth is a subadult female. All this from very fast glimpses though so it's very unreliable really, but I hope to have gotten myself a nice breeding group here. They are already eating hortensis like crazy even though they were quite amazed by the worms at first - I think they have been fed mainly mosquito larvae before.
 
i have seen viriedescens in a tank with orientalis before in a pet shop. They looked ok and were about the same sizes. there was no aggression. any opinions??
 
Here's my two cents worth:

1. Never trust a pet store to look out for the best interest (particularly the long-term health) of any animal. In other words, don't follow any example seen there without researching it. I've seen a pet shop keep orientalis with paddletails - they have no clue.

2. Firebellies and easterns can coexist peacefully. I've done it myself. I saw some unusual behavior (more aggressive than normal) from the easterns, but nothing too worrisome. The bigger problem is that if either are recently wild-caught they are quite likely to have diseases that the other has never been exposed to.
 
Don't mix viriedescens in a tank with orientalis! The mating behavior of N.v. males is, clinging to the females neck. When the males make a mistake an cling orientalis, it is not good for both.
Paul
 
Btw, my single c.o looked so sad and shy when I put him back in his own tank, so I decided to try putting him back in the big tank with the c.e.es.
I have had major problems with this c.o., he was ill when I got him and after that he never seemed to recover his appetite. At first he didn't eat at all, after giving him loads of attention he started eating but only enough to stay alive. He is very thin and passive, otherwise healthy. He is very scared of anything that moves, including all kinds of live food(even grindals LOL).

Now, last time I put him in with the c.e.es he became quite active - probably from shock...
Anyway dumb as I am I decided to try it again, I have had him together with the c.e.es for a couple of days - no problems thus far, again he has become more active.

Anyway to my extremely big surprise the little idiot wasn't afraid of me this morning - normally when he sees me he goes into hiding....
Actually he climed up on the cork bark island and started to do something looking like begging(first time ever!), must have learned from the ensicauda lol.

Anyway, I tried giving him a wormbaby and he took it from my hand!!! His first worm ever...

How strange isn't that?
 
I would be surprised if his better behaviour is due to the presence of the ensicaudas, or any training they gave him. I suspect the change is due to differences in the size and/or setup of the ensicaudas' tank.
 
Yeah, yeah... I prefer to think the ensicaudas taught him how to interact with humans
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To be a little serious, yeah Jen I draw that conclusion too - I was merely surprised at how totally he changed behaviour in no time at all.
 
Maybe, he had 2 before but they died...(ill when they were given to me). I'm not really into orientalis but who knows....
 
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