Cynops fudingensis

A friend showed me this article yesterday. Sadly only the first page is visible and we don´t even get to read a description :(
Hopefully, more information and pictures will appear soon.
It´s nice to see people are doing some work with chinese Cynops.
 
回复: Cynops fudingensis

If you need the whole article, please send me an email, and I will send the pdf to you.;)
jiangke87615@hotmail.com
 
AW: Cynops fudingensis

Hello Jiang,

great article, and great, that now some scientists work with Chinese Cynops systematic!

Did you ever see rough skin Cynops species like this?
Cynopsseiten

What do you think is it?

Paul
 
回复: AW: Cynops fudingensis

paul_b said:
Hello Jiang,

great article, and great, that now some scientists work with Chinese Cynops systematic!

Did you ever see rough skin Cynops species like this?
Cynopsseiten

What do you think is it?

Paul
Click to expand...

Hello Paul,
Thanks for your kind words.
I saw the guys in pet shop in 2006, maybe they came from Zhengjiang province, China. I think it is a variation of C. orientalis, based on molecular data:happy:.
 
AW: 回复: AW: Cynops fudingensis

Thank Ke Jiang you for your rating!
Paul
 
AW: 回复: AW: Cynops fudingensis

Jiang said:
....Zhengjiang province, China.....
Click to expand...
Is this not the same province from which Pingia granulosus is described?

Paul
 
回复: AW: 回复: AW: Cynops fudingensis

paul_b said:
Is this not the same province from which Pingia granulosus is described?

Paul
Click to expand...
The type locality of Pinga granulosus is Tiantai county, eastern Zhejiang province. P. granulosus was rediscovered in Mt.Tianmu, northern Zhejiang in 2008.
 
Re: 回复: Cynops fudingensis

Hi, Jiang!
I was send to you mail with request.
 
AW: Re:Cynops fudingensis

Thanks Jiang!
Jiang said:
The type locality of Pinga granulosus is Tiantai county, eastern Zhejiang province. P. granulosus was rediscovered in Mt.Tianmu, northern Zhejiang in 2008.
Click to expand...
Yes, I found Zhejiang province (South of Shanghai), but:

Jiang said:
...maybe they came from Zhengjiang province, China. I think it is a variation of C. orientalis...
Click to expand...
I did not find Zhengjiang province - only Zhenjiang (North of Shanghai)

Paul
 
回复: AW: Re:Cynops fudingensis

Sorry, I made a mistake. It is Zhejiang province.
 
AW: 回复: AW: Re:Cynops fudingensis

o.k. - thanks!
Paul
 
Jiang, Email sent to request for the PDF. I am very interested. Thank you.
 
Hello to all! Great news about the new Cynops species. I look forward to seeing more on the new form soon. How nice it would be to visit China one day and do some field work there, looking at ponds and other wet habitats and making a comparison with those nearer to home.:happy:
 
Hello Jiang! Thankyou very much for the article on Cynops fudingensis,I am most grateful to you.
 
Re: AW: Cynops fudingensis

paul_b said:
Hello Jiang,

great article, and great, that now some scientists work with Chinese Cynops systematic!

Did you ever see rough skin Cynops species like this?
Cynopsseiten

What do you think is it?

Paul
Click to expand...
Those are Hypselotriton fudingensis. The type locality is in northern Fujian on the southern border of Zhejiang. The shoulder spots, rough skin, distinct ridge, and black spots on a brown background are all typical of H.fudingensis. Yunke Wu kindly provided the paper.
 
Got a shipment of Hypselotriton in today, mostly larger than the usual H.orientalis shipments. A couple smaller ones have distinct black spots on a tan background, while others are essentially black or gray with fine speckling. All I have looked at have the posterior margin of the cloaca black, and none have a black throat collar [many of the previous batch of H.orientalis have the collar]. Many have red or orange spots on the upper arm. Ventrally, black markings are concentrated laterally, creating a semblance of a midline orange stripe, and the few animals at hand seem to have black markings at the ventral margins of the hips and shoulders. Throats are lightly spotted with black.

In short, they look just like the ones from Cynopseiten, and do seem to match H.fudingensis. I'll try to post photos, but I have a backlog of thousands of photos to work through still. I will likely also ask Yunke Wu what he thinks.
 
Re: AW: Cynops fudingensis

FrogEyes said:
Those are Hypselotriton fudingensis. The type locality is in northern Fujian on the southern border of Zhejiang. The shoulder spots, rough skin, distinct ridge, and black spots on a brown background are all typical of H.fudingensis. Yunke Wu kindly provided the paper.
Click to expand...
I take it back. Those at Cynopseiten might be H.fudingensis, but my very similar specimens don't appear to be. I made some rough measurements of several of these new newts, which most closely resembled the holotype of H.fudingensis. In body proportions, they most closely resembled H.orientalis. They don't really match the characteristics of any of the three species - in coloration they are closer to H.orphicus and especially H.fudingensis, but morphologically they are most like H.orientalis. Given that I was working with living specimens, my measurements suffered a bit, so I also threw in some deliberately false measurements. It actually required unreasonably large errors to get results close to Fuding firebellies. Most significantly, head length of the latter is roughly 32% of SVL, while all others are closer to 27%. That doesn't sound like much, but it's actually quite a large difference - roughly 1/3 versus roughly 1/4.

If they are in fact from Zhejiang, which seems reasonable and even likely, they could well be a new species. Most newts in the pet trade can be found in Zhejiang (Pachytriton granulosus, Paramesotriton chinensis, Hypselotriton orientalis) or otherwise near to Shanghai (again, orientalis). Given that H.orientalis has a large range along the Yangtze basin, and was previously considered to range far to the south as well, it would actually make more sense that it is actually multiple species, probably with the Yangtze basin being separate from more coastal regions. This would also make sense in light of the more coastal pockets occupied by H.orphicus and H.fudingensis. Alternately, as with the Dehua population of H.orphicus, it may be that H.fudingensis has a much broader distribution, and the physical diagnosis may need to be modified to account for this. As it stands, Fuding is right on the Zhejiang border and only a short distance from coastal populations purported to be H.orientalis. The type locality of H.orientalis is actually Quzhou, Zhejiang, but this is inland along a major river valley. More coastal locations would be much more isolated by mountains. It might also be that what we think of as "typical" Chinese firebellies are actually not that species at all! Apparently I will need to set aside some MORE tissue samples :p
 
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