Question: Cycling questions (using biological supplement) ?

[Deadpixels]

APOLOGIES AS THIS MAY BE A BIT LONG! MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR READING:

I'm a utter newbie to the world of cycling. I've had fish in the past, but I had no idea that you were supposed to cycle the tank before hand surprisingly they survived quite a long time however. I do not have any axolotls or fish in the tank currently. I've been doing my reading on the nitrogen cycle and am following the information given from this site ... I am doing a fishless cycle using fish food, and have been cycling since the beginning of September. I use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit to test the ph, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

I also used Nutrafin Cycle biological aquarium supplement. I didn't read anything about how cycling works with this stuff, so I'm probably WAAAAY over my head here. But, I was hoping some of you veteran aquarium cycling people could help me out.

Does using a cycling agent/biological supplement like Nutrafin Cycle or ATM Colony Freshwater skew your test readings? I know it establishes the nitrifying bacteria almost immediately, so would that make ammonia and nitrites go way down and nitrates go up? If so, my readings aren't looking right. My ammonia is at 0.50ppm, my nitrites are 0ppm and my nitrates are approximately 5ppm, leaning to less. That seems off to me at this stage in the game. With that many nitrates, shouldn't the ammonia and nitrites be zero? I'm baffled here.

Also, I know you have to feed the nitrifying bacteria or they're going to die off and you're back at square one. How much ammonia do they need on a consistent basis? Is fish food is enough for that? Should I maybe just use pure ammonia (if I can find it) instead? Is all this moot if I continue adding the biological supplement at each water change?

Furthermore, does the PH value or the water temp change how the cycling works? I know if the PH is too low, it can stall the cycle. Would this happen if the PH is too high? My PH is about 7.6 right now and I know that's high in general and I need to get it back down, but is it high enough to stall the cycle? And my tank temp was down at about 64 degrees Fahrenheit for quite a while and then we were hit with a bit of a heat wave and it's come back up to 72 degrees Fahrenheit for the last couple of days.

I'm sorry for the question overload. I'm showing my naivety here for sure. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated! Thank you all so much!

 

[auntiejude]

You need to dose pure ammonia until it reaches about 4ppm, fish food is not enough for cycling. Test each day and add more ammonia to 4ppm each time. One day you'll test and ammonia will be completely gone, dose again and test after 24 hours - if ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrates are sky high you're done. Do a final 90% water change and you're ready to add axies.
'Biological' instant cycle stuff is really nothing more than a few bacterial spores that may or may not actually help, personally I wouldn't bother with it.
Don't worry abut the pH, it will change with different levels of ammonia and nitrite/nitrate, so until you do your final water change before you add animals it really doesn't matter.
Hope that helps.

 

[Peyote]

Totally as AuntieJude says!

Just to add another experience for (I hope) your peace of mind... I find that 6 weeks is the absolute minimum time for a new tank to even begin to achieve a nice ecological balance. Double that really. Then, remember, when you add some fish or an axolotl you are changing the system (food, metabolic process waste products) so a new ecological balance will develop after that - but starting with the right mix of bacteria that your cycling will develop. All the right bacteria will find your tank by themselves.

So don't worry, and don't fiddle around with inputs too much when cycling! If the light, temperature and food input is all constant thereafter, and if there is enough surface area provided for bacteria to live on, and you are also removing/replacing same volume of water each week then the system will find its own balance and stay like it for year after year. If the temperature goes up, the axolotl will pump out more ammonia of course. I increase the volume or frequency of water changes during very hot weather, though your bacteria will also helpfully be consuming more ammonia and nitrite as temperature rises.

By the way, my tanks: Plastic plants / sand substrate (as per axolotl org site) / some rock caves / 80 litres. I remove 2 builder-buckets water (24litres) each week. 500ml drinks bottle with artificial fibre cotton wool stuffed inside with a slow flow through provides some extra biological filtration, collects algae (another way that minerals and nitrogen are removed from the system) and provides crystal clear water for tank Feng-Shui. Axolotl never been sick since being in this set up (8 years or so now in this tank) and is 11 inches long, and follows anyone who walks past rather like a guard dog. Food is just common earth worms (Lumbricus terrestris) and woodlice (Oniscus asellus and Porcellio scaber mainly - he won't eat the "pill" woodlouse (Armadilidium vulgari). Tap water here is hard/high pH (via the chalk), low in agricultural run-off, and very low in metals. I would phone up your water supplier and ask what is in your tap-water. Use 'tap-safe' or whatever of course!

Good Luck! Follow Autiejude's advice too!

 

[Luca1980]

Don't use fish food to cycle an aquarium, it is really hard to be accurate with how much ammonia you are adding. I am currently cycling a new tank using 'Dr Tim's ammonia' as well as 'seachem stability' for added bacteria. I have also seeded my new tank with décor from established tanks and it also contains live plants. All of these help to speed up the cycle. People always have mixed opinions regarding bottled bacteria but I have only had good experiences with the seachem stability - it has really helped things to kick along nicely.

 

[Deadpixels]

Well, I'm restarting the cycle. I emptied and cleaned the tank (I had to get rid of the sand anyway, I discovered a logistic error using black sand: you can't clean up axie poop when you cant see it LOL). I'm getting a new filter in a few days and I'm going to pick up some seachem prime (or stability, perhaps) and pure ammonia and it up that way. Thank you all for your help!!!

 

[Deadpixels]

Ugh. So, on Tuesday I restarted the cycle, only this time, it's a fish-in cycle. I got 5 White Cloud minnows in the tank. I also used 5ml of Seachem Prime. It's been 4 days, and my ammonia hasn't gone up at all. Is 4 days not enough for a spike? Am I doing something wrong? Is 5 fish not enough?