Croceator trip

[josh]

prime croceator habitat

hey russ, theres your log! lol

 

[josh]

a very large female croceator

a very beautiful male

this male is very pale. more cream colored than yellow

 

[josh]

the whole group!

i thought this pic was kinda cute

 

[russ]

Hey, I think that is it in the lower right frame! LOL. Usually by the time I get there (March) that area you're in on the flats is already too dry and you have to stay up along the hill to find any thing.

That male with all the yellow on the tail is awesome. The female I have has a lot of yellow like that.

RUSS

 

[josh]

ya, hes a big boy too! that flat area was really wet around the hillsides and heavily oaked areas. it was awesome. how are yours doin this year as far as breeding russ??

 

[russ]

Great. I should be getting klauberi (Palomar), croceater (Breck) and platensis (Greenhorns) eggs soon (if they don't eat them first).

RUSS

 

[josh]

sweet! i really like those greenhorn plats! good luck russ!

 

[mark]

Congratulations on the finds. Looks like you had a good trip. Nice pics as well! It's a little sad to see that you collected seven adult animals from this location though...

 

[russ]

I know Josh and a friend are putting together a breeding colony, so seven isn't extreme. Ensatina are actually extremely common, even the southern subspecies, if you look for them at the exact right time. The perception that they are rare has to do with the often short season based on recent weather patterns (no rain, no Ensatina). I've found as few as one in two days to dozens in an hour of the same subspecies at the same location, just different recent weather conditions. Luckily too a lot of their habitat is held as state and national forests, so there's some protection from habitat loss.

RUSS

 

[josh]

yes, i would have preffered to go to a different location after seeing this location just because of how sparse the habitat was there. i do know a better spot... doh.. anyhoo, i wont be touching that spot again. if i ever need an individual for some reason...ill bug russ!! LOL! russ is a good guy.

 

[frank]

I also hate to step in here. Oddly, no one seems to bother when e.g. Asian newts (e.g. Paramesotriton, Pachytriton...) are bought in pet shops... these animals are wild caught too and, worse, their status often is not known. I do not defend the collection of wild specimens but (of course only when local laws are respected) I believe it is far less damaging to a population to collect a small breeding group than to buy one through a massive importation.

 

[russ]

Population dynamics and size estimates in wild caudates, there's a Pandora's box. LOL!

RUSS

 

[josh]

in your first post mike, i understand where u are comming from, but alot of species (especially amphibians) are disappearing at an alarming rate without the help of capture. i remember as a kid, red legged frogs and cascade frogs were abundant in large numbers. taricha were found in ENORMOUS numbers in every pond, red backed salamanders were common in the woods down the street. even garter snakes are vanishing. the thinning numbers in my home town wernt from collecting either. its happening all over the world. ensatina are having their habitat turned into small towns and farming land. they are being restricted to small plots of land. one day, they may be all gone. i collected a small group for breeding. and like i said, i dont ever plan on touching that spot again....EVER! I do certainly plan on distributing the babies throughout the group and maybe even stop the urge top wild collect them.... the catch is, you gotta collect the original group from the wild to achieve this. there is a difference between mass market collecting and small breeding group collecting. i hope to do something good with this.

 

[josh]

thank you very much mike! i wish you the best of luck with your studies. i know exactly what you mean when you say, "initially interested in expanding the girth of their wallets." i see that so often. the truth is, herps really arnt a good way to make a living. there are too many people trying it nowadays.

 

[mark]

I too commend your intentions Josh. I did not mean to attack you for collecting your animals, especially now that you have expressed your purpose in doing so. I have seen multiple times people collect animals (including gravid females) for 'breeding projects' yet never seem to try very hard to produce offspring. I wish you the best of luck with your Ensatinas, maybe you'll be posting an ad for some juvies in about a year.

 

[josh]

i certainly hope so! they are such incredible animals and my favorite salamander. i really would like to share this species with others via captive born individuals.