Photo: Couple'a sick newts and some other questions. HELP!

[t0astiez]

Otis and Ships, a few days ago.

Hello everyone, first post here.
I had a Chinese Firebelly newt when I was a child and missed him so much I decided I needed some more a couple weeks ago. I grabbed what appeared to be the three healthiest from the pet shop, but that wasn't saying a whole lot. The employee knew basically nothing about them so i did my best to choose at least one male and one female, but i'm beginning to think i have two Cynops Orientalis and another of a similar but not identical species, or perhaps two efts and one adult, i really don't know, any help is much appreicated. the two that i believe to be the efts/orentalis are the sick ones. until someone can clarify, i'll be referring to all of them in the masculine.

One was active and seemingly happy but had a small sore on his back, which has since only gotten larger and bleeds every time the newt (Milo) eats, as well one of his hands has begun to deteriorate and he has stopped using that (front right) arm.

the other (Otis) looked fine (albeit a bit skinny) when i took him home but since then has developed very similar spreading sores going up his tail, and about 5 days ago i found about half of his tail dry and stuck to the glass on the side of my 10 gallon tank.

i was hesitant at first to buy aquarium water conditioner because i know that newts breathe through diffusion and didn't want to introduce any chemicals without being sure (i was using filtered Brita water which didn't seem to bother anyone but Otis.)but have since decided it was a necessity although i've been introducing it slowly. since adding it (yesterday), Otis has not had any issues being underwater for extended periods of time.

since taking these photos (early yesterday) i have seperated the two ill newts (Milo and Otis) from Ships, for fear of further exposing him to whatever illness/bacteria is plaguing the other two.


so my questions are:
1.are these two a lost cause or is there anything i can do to save them? i feel terribly that they were obviously kept in not the best conditions prior to my taking them home and i hate slowly watching them die...

2. is regular aquarium water conditioner alright to use? should i use anything else? should i use the recommended directions or less?

3. what newts do i have? i know the two ill ones are Cynops orientalis, but are they eft or adults? is Ships a pyrroghaster or something else? which are male/female? (can get more pics of course, but preferably wouldn't like to disturb the ill ones that much until they're better)

Milo's sore when I first brought him home:

Milo now:

Milo and Ships:

Otis' tail: (&Milo's back)

Ships:

any help is much appreciated. will get some shots of their _______-arium soon!
(so many new words i'm learning on here, don't know what kind of tank i got goin )

edit to add: i have not seen Otis eat since i brought him home, he shys away from both tiny tiny crickets and bloodworms that both of the others have no problem with.

 

[t0astiez]

update:

i have begun fridging the infected individuals (separated)
is there any antibiotic/antibacterial steps i should be taking other than using dechlorinated water?

p.s. some have probably looked at this thread and condemned it as 'another one of those threads' about sick WC newts. i completely understand this, and will of course never make the same mistake again. however any and all help is appreciated not only by me but even more so by the two caudates clinging to life in my mini-fridge. i would love to be able to keep these two going but i get more and more doubtful by the minute.

 

[Azhael]

Uh....that looks very bad...
The problem with that kind of infection is that they are really hard to control. Once the infection has started to eat away the flesh, the possibilities of recuperation are slim. However, it is possible, so don´t give up.

I would start with salt baths:
Caudata Culture Articles - Salt Solutions in Treating Salamanders

Move the animals to individual tuppers with good ventilation and moist paper towels(unbleached) as substrate. Add some pieces of bark for cover, keep cool and in a shady spot.

You can also apply Neosporin (without painkillers) directly on the wound.

As i said, the damage is already quite big, so be ready for the worst.

They are all Cynops orientalis, no doubt. As for the sexes, i really can´t tell from the photos (we need pictures of the cloaca), although i would guess one of them at least is female.

Well...you´ve seen what happens with WC pet-shop animals..it´s quite horrible....
I hope at least you learn from this experience and wether they make it or not (let´s hope they do), you refrain from being part of the WC market in the future. Most of us make the same mistake, the key is in not repeating it .

 

[t0astiez]

thanks so much for the advice.

they have been in seperate tupperwares in a not-too-cold fridge (aerated) over night. i will proceed with the salt baths and neosporin treatments today. i have more than learned my lesson with WC animals.

anyone ever had luck in my situation?

 

[Jennewt]

You could also try one of the broad-spectrum fish antibiotic treatments available. The treatment articles on Caudata Culture list some of the ones that have been used on amphibians. But as Azhael said, once these infections start they are hard to reverse. It's hard to treat something when the infectious agent (bacteria, fungus, virus) is unknown.

 

[Azhael]

There have certainly been cases in which the animals recovered from such infections, but it really is more of an exception. You can probably find some threads with succesful stories around the forum.
The one with the infected tail has a better chance since it can easily regrow the lost tissue if the infection is eliminated, the other one is probably doomed...:S That´s a very nasty sore....

Edit: just in case you haven´t read it yet, take a look at the caresheet for this species:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Cynops/C_orientalis.shtml
It will help you prevent future problems. Make sure you offer excelent conditions for the "healthy" one, because even if it doesn´t have the same infection, it still is a very stressed, vulnerable animal, and will need the best care to recover from the importation.

 

[t0astiez]

update: yesterday morning i went to give Milo and Otis their salt baths and found that Otis (tail problems) did not make it through the night. my girlfriend and i were pretty devastated but i'm glad he's not suffering any more. Milo on the other hand appears to be getting slightly more active, and the whiteness of the sore on his back is beginning to ever-so-slightly get a flesh-colored tint back to it. he has also begun using his front right arm again, but obviously is still without the hand. however he is refusing food for the time being (hasn't been too long so i'm not too worried yet), and appears to have grown another tiny sore/infection on his back near the other. edit: looking back at the pictures in the first post, you can see the smaller sore to the posterior of the major one. the smaller one hasn't really gotten any worse, but not any better either. if he still appears to be making somewhat of a recovery tomorrow (if these are even signs of recovery at all) i will take pictures for you all to analyze. as well, if someone well-educated and reputable feels it's the right thing to euthanize Milo, please tell me because i'll never be able to justify making that decision on my own, but am willing to do it to end his suffering, which is my main concern.

Ships is happy and healthy in his tank, eating well, enjoying the cool water and showing no signs of infection. once i'm finished taking care of Milo, whenever that may be, i'll get shots up of my current setup, and will be upgrading sometime in the near future.

thanks again for all the help Azhael and Jennewt, it is very much appreciated