Coloration in Axo's

H

hans

Guest
hello i am totally new on this board.I am a Axo breeder and have bred this year around 1100 axo's. We have 3 colours at this moment. The wild colour,white/black eye's and the goldi's.
I have at this moment also some youngs (2 inches) which are white with brown spickels.
They are small and hope this colour will stay when they mature.
But I would like to experiment a bit next spring with the eggs and their incubation temperature.
does anyone have already some experience what colours will do when the eggs are bred on high temp.related to colour??
I would like to put eggs on different temperature
and see how the youngs will develop later on.
If someone has already some experience please let me know.
 
some Universities all over the world have extensive studies on axolotl genetics, including strains and mutations.

http://www.ambystoma.org/AGSC/mutants.htm ~ formerly the Indiana Colony (now moved to Kentuckey, so sad, I have relatives at the Bloomington school)
they have a nice newsletter at times and citations of academic and scientific materials related to axolotl.

There is other academic information out there too if you really want to get into strain development.
 
Yes I am familiar with this information. I have also had contact with the Indian axo's colony in Kentucky (Chris) and also asked them about it. they never tried doing this and have no experience raising eggs on higher temperature related to colour.
I have a background of breeding many kind of reptiles,worked on reptile-department of Zoos ect ect. Also have bred reptiles which are sensitive for higher temperatures during the incubation of the eggs. I have at this moment 2 wild colours which have been bred on higher temperature. They are out of a bunch of 20 eggs. they are still small and I have to see if this colour will stay.There ar only 2 of them so I can't say they will give me the answer.
To me it all sounds very normal. The colour will be darker when the temperature is low. They have to catch more light with their darker colour to heat up the body. Also when the temperature is to high they will be brighter in colour because they wouldn't to became so hot.So i am not sure if this rule would be the same for the Axo's.
So far I haven't read much about this.
 
I am quite familiar with the development of reptiles in reguards to temperature and temperature fluctuation. More likely with sex ratios rather than colouration. I never looked into temperature effects on the young of amphibians. Have you seen any study about temperature effecting colour on other salamanders or even in frogs? It might be a starting point until something more specific is found.

If no one currently has sufficient information on the effects of temperature on eggs, I am eager to hear your findings. I will keep my eyes open to any informations. For some reason I am not surprised some of the universities do not have information about this, most of their studies do not seem to reproduction but based on regeneration and even brain transplants and all sort of Frankenstein work...

It seems you have some knowlege and do know some researchers, so I am sure you may find some information eventually. Good luck.
 
I will keep you posted. It will take some while before I have some result.Will start with four temp. in one clutch of eggs.Will also raise the young seperated from each other to get a good view. Will try to raise atleast 30 of each temperture.Kentucky is also interested to see how things will develop. They never tried this before.i will also start to work with some supplements which will be mix threw the food.
This is a different story but hope to get some results outof that one.
I have join a reptile symposium 20 years ago in Chicago.I remember they organized a tour in a ZOO but also in the Aquariumhouse in the centre of the city.Have seen some nice things, does the Aquaruimhouse still excist in chigaco??
 
this sounds exciting!
with reptiles the colouration isnt affected is it.
as far as im aware, the only thing that can affect colour is the genetic makeup of the cell, and heat can only affect the sex(i think anyway, this is the case in many tropical fish, and reptiles)
anyway good luck, and these white spotty juveniles sound interesting, id keep them, and see how they turn out, if you breed a male and a female of that colour varient, you might see a higher percentage of babies with it.
 
http://www.leopardgecko.com/color.html
Here you can read what higher temperture can do with for example Leopardgecko's.
Also in nature you can see for example Vipers living in a colder habitat having a darker color like their relatives which live in a much warmer area.I believe nature gives them a helping hand to give the rigth color ( abit ligther or a bit darker) already organized in their incubationperiod.Animals born on low temperture can us their darkerskin to absorve heat on a quicker way.Animals born with high temperture could expect also a high temperture habitat when the are born. Brigther skin colors can prevent absorving warmth. Of course this is my own opinion and look how things are manage in nature.
Have to see if I can effect their color by higher incubation temperture.Time will tell.
 
I have an interview for the Aquariumhouse house in Chicago soon. (Shedd Aquarium) It still exist and they have a Komodo dragon now. He isnt very exciting. Just sits there and sleep. Someone needs to give in a cow or a misbehaving child to play with. Anyways...If or when I get in I can ask questions about this. That leopard gecko website is interesting
I, myself, plan to begin a colour experament within a year or so.

Goodluck Hans! We all hope things work out.
 
At this time, there are no known true TSD (temperature sex determinations) in amphibians as they have genetic sex determination. There are a couple of species that exposure to excessive (near lethal) temperatures causes a change in morphology to the other sex but doesn't change the genetic component.

In addition, at this time, there haven't been any documented temperature caused developmental pigment abnormalities documented.

Ed
 
just cross-breed your different colors, the temperature will determine how long they take to grow. On my shelves of tubs, the warmest air is on the top shelf, coldest on the bottom (about a 5 degree F difference) and the ones on the bottom shelf always grow a bit slower. The parent animal's genes tell you what colors you will get.

Keep them cool!
 
Yes i also noticed the temperature is very important on the grow"speed".
Don't get me wrong I don't think the color will change, it's will be just the brigthness.I know about the genes ect but I am hoping to see the wildcolors could have a much brigther color after they have had a high incubation temperture.
 
Does anyone has experience with Allopurinol??
This is a supplement which effect the colour
of axolotl's and make them bright yellow.
 
If I remember correctly, allopurinol should cause them to become melanoid in appearence not bright yellow. (see Amphibian Biology: Volume 1 Integument Harold Heatwole and George T. Barthalmus 1994 HC 418pp )

Ed
 
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