Color Type Help

[usafaux2004]

Figured I'd make my own topic instead of intruding into others. I'm now just about 3 weeks in (Hatched Dec15-19) and my Wild-lites are still not nearly as dark as the obviously Wildtype babies. Can't quite pin the albino coloring either. The one from the "Twin" egg is the most yellow one, but the rest don't look nearly as yellow.

Here are the twins - a Wildtype and a Golden Albino it would seem:

The other albinos, there's a total of 7 in the tub, but 5 in this shot. You can also see the size difference getting quite pronounced now:

A random albino, that doesn't look nearly as golden as the twin one does:

Wildtypes being pretty obvious:

This is the Wildtype that has a strange eye damage/issue/mutation, whatever. He's also quite different in the coloring patter from the Wilds above with much finer pigment spots, and when looked at closely with the others, seems a lot lighter than the rest:

Here's his eye issue I'm talking about:

More photos of my defects/issues are here.

Here are the Wild-lites as I've taken to calling them. Early on I separated my herd into Albinos, Wilds, and these guys (at the time I assumed Leucistics). They had the spots, but I knew Leucistics can have some spots, so that's what I based my original call on.

They haven't been getting darker yet, and the contrast between the Wildtypes and these guys is drastic:

Here are the two tubs side by side, showing how drastically different they look from each other:

 

[Alkylhalide]

They look like they may turn into leucistics and not wild types. Only time will tell, sometimes it tales up until they have their back legs fully developed before you can tell the difference. Dont be fooled all my leucistics were darker then my melanoids until they got older, then they loose the pigment as they age.. Then some get freckles again as they get to adults

 

[Alkylhalide]

And by loose i mean lose...

 

[usafaux2004]

Was feeding them yesterday and noticed rear leg buds!

 

[auntiejude]

How many of each do you have? They nearly always come in 1/4 of the whole number, so if you give us the numbers it might be easier to determine what they are.

And what colour are the parents? (I'm sure you mentioned it before, but I'm too lazy to go find it)

 

[usafaux2004]

Wildtype and Leucistic parents.

Willowcat got most of the eggs. I hatched 28, so it may not be representative. 8 albino, 9 wild, 9 wildlites. 2 died, one was a lite, other wild or a lite.

 

[lovesheraxies]

They look like golden, wild, and leucistic.

 

[usafaux2004]

Means that dad is D/d then, not D/D as I thought. So far I got:

Wildtype: D/d, A/a, M/M, AX?
Leucistic: d/d, A/a, M/M, AX?

 

[auntiejude]

Bear with me, here is my reasoning:

You have albino babies (a/a), all look golden, none are white. This genotype is D/-, so this probably means your wild type parent is D/D and you won't have leucistic babies (d/d).
However, with one leucistic parent they will all carry the recessive 'white gene' and be D/d.
The must be true for the other babies, they can't be leucisitc, so they must be wilds, all with D/d genes.
So your wildlites are exactly that - pale wild types
All your albinos have iridophores, so they must be M/-. This probably means that one of the parents is M/M.
Both parents MUST be A/a for the albino gene, which means some of your wild babies will be carrying a recessive albino gene.
But AX is much more difficult to determine, so I would not like to comment on that.

You albino babies are: D/d M/- a/a
Your wildtype babies are: D/d M/- A/-
With unknown Ax

This is borne out by the numbers - you have equal numbers of dark and light wilds, and you have approximately 1/4 albino and 3/4 wilds of varying shades. But with such a small sample it could be slightly skewed. Which means you were right in the first place on the D/D for the dad.

Incidentally my lighter wilds grew up with a lot of green and gold, the darker ones much more brown and black.

(Genetics is so much easier with peas)

 

[usafaux2004]

As always, appreciate the input. '

M/- = M/M? I suppose if one is M/m and another is M/M then I probably can't narrow it down anyway as it wouldn't be expressed in the babies. But besides breeding the babies later on, it would be impossible to make the call? Obviously no m/m on the parent side.

This is from the genetics page: "m/m (melanoid) results in a lack of iridophores. Such animals are very dark, with no reflective pigment cells at all. M/m or M/M would result in normal iridophore development."

Found this on another site: "If the animal is homozygous for the albino gene then the D/D and D/d animal will be golden albinos and the d/d animal will be a white albino.". Based on this and what you said, I'm assuming the "not nearly as gold" axies are still pretty gold looking? The issue is that there's simply no good resource that I've found of pictures of babies, and their coloring or before/after type deals.

I've looked at all of their eyes as far as I can tell, and all have the "donut" look to them, so I'm sure none are mels.

 

[auntiejude]

Yes, M/- means the 2nd gene is unknown - could be M or m.

My reasoning was that since all your albinos are yellow/gold, none of them are d/d. Since your leucistic must be d/d, the wild must be D/D for this to happen.


Since they all have iridophores they must all have a M gene, any m would be hidden as recessive. Since you have no melanoid babies it means that at least one parent must be M/M, as M/m and M/m breeding would result in 1/4 of the babies being melanoid - m/m.

I will try and post pics of my babies over the next few days - at less than one week and at 12 weeks as they are now, so you can see the colours better, especially the wild types in their colouring.

 

[usafaux2004]

Yay pictures! Anything helps. I've scoured the web it seems, and there's just not that many good pictures of larvae out there.

 

[usafaux2004]

OK, here's a twist. Was separating them by size. Maybe it was the lighting. But I have ONE if my 8 albinos that's not gold. Genetics readings changed.

 

[auntiejude]

I don't think it changes much, it probably a function of the AX genes.

Anyway - as promised I have some pics:
The pics are of the babies at 1 week - you can see 3 different colours in the group shot, and the beautiful diamond shape on the albinos.
The other 3 are of the same group at 10 weeks - you can see darker and lighter wild types, as well as the albinos.

 

[usafaux2004]

But it doesn't look like a gold...lol

 

[auntiejude]

But it doesn't look like a gold...lol

No, and with the genes we think your parents have it can't be a white one as it must be at least D/-.
Therefore I suspect its something to do with the AX genes giving it a lack of yellow. However, if we are wrong about the parents.....

 

[usafaux2004]

Here they are in their tanks:

Second tank on right, top left and center - two Leucys of different color due to GFP.

Here's my 5 gilled Albino:

Leucistic with some spots still there:

Spot the Wildtype with the weird eye:

What I'm sure is my golden (but also GFP) albino, a regular (non GFP) albino and a GFP Wildtype.

 

[auntiejude]

OK, so it's back to the drawing board for genetics if you have leucistics! Cute babies though :happy:

 

[usafaux2004]

Dad is clearly D/d. Albino colors and AX is my stumbling block.

 

[auntiejude]

So that makes the parents:
Wildtype: D/d, A/a, M/M, AX/-
Leucistic: d/d, A/a, M/-, -/-

Albino clours are quite easy:
D/- in combination with M and AX gives a shiney golden colour (golden albinos)
d/d is a white albino (albino + leucistic genes)
m/m looks very similar to d/d - no iridophores
ax/ax works similarly to m/m in albinos

Your albinos should be half gold and half white if the above parent genetics is right.