Color appearance in toadlets

[DocZelop]

Hi everyone,

looks like it's the mating season ! So, as a lot of breeders, I've had my first success at breeding FBT this year... I've got a dozen toadlets, that metamorphed about two weeks ago...

Everything is fine, and they're eating fruitflies like there's no tomorrow
However, they remain quite brownish on the back (though the parents are bright green) and yellowish on the belly...

Does anyone know if the colouring appears gradually (both back and belly) or if I have to supplement the food ? For now, I'm dusting the fruitflies with Reptivit (not sure it's a good choice), about once every week...

So, if you have any advice on the supplement I should add to the food, that would be very much appreciated !

Thanks in advance

 

[olmrudyk]

Hello,
In Aprile 2012 I bought CB B. orientalis with unusual coloration.I did on-line search and found 2 different
CBs with similar coloration.
Now I have a bunch of tadpoles from the pair.In a couple months will see what my CBB will be look like .
Here are a pictures of my WC and CB( I have no idea how they were rised up; they are not my breed)

 

[DocZelop]

Well, FBT come in two flavors these days...

The bright green ones are Korean, while the brownish ones come from the Russian border. Thing is, here the parents are bright green and the toadlets have yet to display the same coloration, as they're light brown for now...

I hear that some breeders feed them color enhancers, but I've yet to find wich ones.

Also, do you think they need UV for proper growth, or is tube light good enough ?

Thanks a lot in advance...

 

[olmrudyk]

So called Russian type of B. o. is just brown( more or less yellowish or greyish, sometime with small green spots, but never with greenish-gray background of whole back ). To my understanding an animals from Korea differ from Chinese ones mostly by their a little bigger size and usually heavier black spotting (some of green Chinese specimens look very similar to Korean FBT; my female posted here- it’s female- was chosen as the best one from 20-25 others of the same party, mostly looking as classic Chinese . But the most important feature of all those 3 broods I know for sure they are CB is their yellow belly.And all WC FBT I saw had an orange belly, regardless of back color and original. Those WC are many dozens (if not several hundred) animals from Russia, China and Korea, both greens and browns.
I know nothing about an influence of UV on amphibian coloration, but I can state for green Lacertas: CB green lizards sometime have a similar greenish- gray ground coloration. Unlike FBT it’s not expressed in whole brood, just individually. I believe that’s somehow related to UV, but not only to UV. I suspect some still unknown combination of factors in captivity, like genetic, foods and light.
Would be very interesting to see a photos of your adults and froglets, as well as pictures from other FBT breeders.
All the best,
Alex

 

[Niels D]

Some offer the toadlets just after they've morphed tubifex/blood worms which is dusted with carotene powder on a wet paper towel. This also works for your FBN. For this method you need a very low dose I believe and after their bellies are red you do not need to repeat the process.

 

[caleb]

In my experience, orientalis toadlets are always brown at first, but can gradually develop green colouration, with the arms and legs turning green before the body. If there is no green after a couple of months, they will be brown for ever.

The colour-enhancing substances are carotenoids- they've been discussed here many times before. They mostly affect the belly, but they do affect the green colour too- it's a blue- or grey-green without supplementation.

It seems likely that the presence or absence of green colour is genetic. My current animals come from a breeder who claims to have green stock that breeds true. They were brown when they came to me, and sure enough they are all green now.

B. orientalis in the pet trade have included both brown & green animals as long as I can remember- certainly since the mid 1980s. It's certainly not the case that all brown orientalis come from Russia.

 

[olmrudyk]

In Russia both types( green and brown) are presented, too

 

[olmrudyk]

Also, I’d like to separate the two questions: first - relations (ranges, abundance, genetic… whatever) between brown and green types/ phases? in WC FBT’s and second one - development of coloration in CB genetically green B. orientalis.
As to my experience those dull specimens (green-grey with yellow belly), that have been once "spoiled” by improper diet/light, whatever, during their development in captivity, seem have no chances to get bright green color ever. And adult WC greens are keeping their green/ orange brightness for years even in absence of any UV, supplemental pigment or pre- pigment (sure that’s aside of regular reversible changes in coloration in any amphibian animal).
So it’s like there is special stage of development, sensitive to establishment of green coloration.
It would be interesting to hear from breeders of green FBT what color their F1 and F2 have and, if dull one, what is your guess: could it be due to deficiency of something when tadpoles or post morphs?; caused by diet or by lack of natural light?; were their seasonal and circadian rhythms ( light, temps) artificially modified? ….
The documented cases of breeding and rising so common FBT seem sadly rare
And the theoretical discussion about all factors involved would be too complicated at least because of their number

 

[caleb]

As to my experience those dull specimens (green-grey with yellow belly), that have been once "spoiled” by improper diet/light, whatever, during their development in captivity, seem have no chances to get bright green color ever. And adult WC greens are keeping their green/ orange brightness for years even in absence of any UV, supplemental pigment or pre- pigment

In my experience, the belly colour can be intensified up to at least one year after metamorphosis. I've not kept WC orientalis, but I have a WC female B. maxima that has lost its red belly colour. After 10 years in captivity, it is now the same yellow as CB adults that have had no colour supplements.

 

[DocZelop]

Just for information, here is a pic of the father, and one of his kids (much harder to get a good shot at)

 

[olmrudyk]

In my experience, the belly colour can be intensified up to at least one year after metamorphosis. I've not kept WC orientalis, but I have a WC female B. maxima that has lost its red belly colour. After 10 years in captivity, it is now the same yellow as CB adults that have had no colour supplements.[/QUOTE
Interesting. I did not keep any green FBT speciemen for more then 3-4 years and was thinking that's enough to state inreversablity of adult coloration. Your note inspires me for experiments. Thank you!