Canadian Pet Shop

[nate]

Anyone looking for a good laugh (or perhaps a good cry over the greed of our fellow man) should check out the rubbish being spread about the caudates being sold at this Canadian site:

http://www.probreeder.com/desertdesigners/desertindex.htm

Difficult to tell if they are intentionally misrepresenting their animals or have been duped by a dealer.

 

[rob]

Hey Nate,

Yeah I contacted those guys months ago to ask them about things and to see if they wished to keep in touch with someone else into caudata in Canada. I even mentioned this site. I haven't heard back from them yet.

What is rubbish on the site? From what I can see they have the scientific name and a brief blurb about each animal that could describe most species of caudata. No price tags either, so I don't know how greedy they're going to be (but oh yes, they will ask way too much I'm sure).


It wouldn't bother me so much if they didn't make the claim to have the rarest collection in Canada (which is BS) and if they weren't ignorant and actually responded to me, showing interest in the caudata community instead of just bucks. OH well!

 

[lane]

I believe they are misrepresenting in showing off the animals although they actually have none. They merely say they hope to have some available. I also think the sizes are wrong, they call shanjing a very easy to keep terrestrial sal (usually not easy when they are freshly imported and half dead already), they say that E andersoni is the rarest newt in the world, consider H tokyoensis aquatic and also say they breathe cutaneously when in fact they use lungs - they aren't plethodontids, and they don't even know whether they have a Hynobius or Pachyhynobius - it is Pachyhynobius in my opinion. Anyway, I think that is how they are misrepresenting the animals. They are also using pictures of some exceptional animals in many of those pics.

 

[nate]

As Lane has astutely pointed out some of the key rubbish, I'll only add some others like their P. chinensis photo is P. fuzhongensis, P. caudopunctatus is at my local shop (as it commonly has been every fall) even though they claim it is "rarely" exported from China, and T. shanjing is commonly imported into North America

H. tokyoensis don't have lungs? Come on...it's total sensationalism mixed with fiction.

 

[rob]

Ahh...I must confess to not really reading much of what they had posted...a quick browse when I posted my comment. I had no idea.

Well, a boycott by Canadians may be called for...especially if they're not willing to contribute to the caudata community.

 

[sergé]

Glad you already have done research on this...hopefully nobody is doing business with them. Well, South Park already learned us that canadians are strange people (no, just joking, ******** can be found everywhere).

(Message edited by john on February 10, 2004)

 

[ralf]

Not everything in Canada is bad. There is still Molson's and Moosehead, not to forget the RCMP (they always get their newt - ooops - man. Ahhh and yes, a small feeder business I can't seem to remember the name of.

Ralf

 

[aaron]

Hey, there are lots of trees there, too. Hey Rob, did you get electricity and/or running water yet? hehe

~Aaron

 

[craig]

Hi all, yes it seems they have rubbed many the wrong way, and have made some errors. Although I will say they might have the caudates they claim to have. Nate you know in Japan who they are dealing with! I e-mailed them today to get a response on their breeding program, I'll let you know what if anything I find out.
Craig

 

[philipp]

Hi
Yes, found them too and my first thought was: Surely no newtlovers,....
Think it´s a way to create a market to establish newts as "interesting field" for collectors of rarities,.....
Just read sentences like "high red morph" nd stuff,......
And of course, i won´t ever support people, breeding and "creating" those awful designer-geckoes,.....
Australian porsches?;-)
That Echinotriton andersoni shown looks much too thin to me.On the other hand i don´t like that kind of taking photos,......
Not only Canadians should prevent such kinds of shops.Kinda strange, cause nobody wants to have real well-doing CB Paramesotriton fuzhongensis and Tylototriton shanjing here,........
Am i wrong, Ralf?;-)
Greets,
Greets,

 

[ralf]

Phillip,
I also think there are intentions to establish certain caudate species as collector's items. I also think that the announcement of future cb offspring on the basis of keeping a number of wc animals is rather naive if not a fraud, considering all the potential difficulties during mating, egglaying, raising larvae and morphs and you name it..... I wonder what it costs to be on a fictitious recipient list?
Gotten too fond of my 20 odd semiadult offspring P.fuzhongenis, so I haven't really been trying to give them away. It's easier however to get wc Paramesotritons than cb offspring cause few people unfortunately seem to breed them.

Ralf

 

[rob]

Yeah damn us Canadians...we're everywhere. Thankfully we just got running water and electricity up here last week. About time!

 

[philipp]

Hi All
First: Thanks Ralf.Yes, my shanjing had to stay here to, at least some. But there are still some to come, name it an "upcoming heritage,....",....
But there wil be enough people for sure, paying and waiting for a name on the list,...
But dear my favoutite Canadians: You can get much more electricity if you help us, getting rid of Nickleback,.......;-)We can send you some Dieter Bohlen!
Greets
Philipp

 

[sergé]

It si good to see we can all laugh about it, but the aim to create a market for exxpensive caudates in different color morphs (like the gecko's, snakes, poison dart frogs etc.) will still grow as long as people are stupid enough to believe that they get something really special or that they can get a 'unique' colored animal (no offense but the demand for albino forms is already the start of this). All well, everybody has got his personal taste, and as long as we stay friendly as this and can help each other with CB animals for friendly prices or just for exchange because we want to see our precious raised animals to be taken good care of, I am still a happy caudate keeper.
World peace starts with us! ;-) (which reminds me, has anyone read the Tjech fiction novel on world domination by Gigant salamanders?). Great book, I forgot the titel but I'll get it to you tomorrow.

Sergé

 

[ralf]

Hi Sergé,
well spoken. No sense in letting our hobby get spoiled.
Guess I know the book you are talking about. It's by the Czech author Karel Capek. It was written in 1936 and the original title is "Válka s mloky" meaning something like "The War with the Newts" (in German: "Der Krieg mit den Molchen")
If you want to find out about the secret connection between Andrew Scheuchzer and Andrias scheuchzeri, read it and enjoy, hehehehe.

Ralf

 

[philipp]

Good Morning
(Don´t know where to get the special "e",Serge!)
Yes, thanks for that opinion. Some days ago, somebody offered me acolour-morph Tiliqua via email. Kind of strange;-)
Still waiting for Brachymeles,....;-)
Bye,
Philipp

 

[sergé]

Hi Ralf and Philipp and others,
(the e you can still do with alt-130..remember Word Perfect...my god I'm getting old).
Yes, that's the book! It's fun reading and I can recommend it to anyone, although a bit old in style still very nice.
Well, color-morphs are okay as long as they still are healthy animals (which they are often not). But like Dave Herbert said on an other page (under the posted photos'of S. s. gallaica) in Salamandra you can have many natural color variants which makes any individual unique. Especially in S. s. gallaica there is so much diversity. Ah, well, up to work,

Sergé

 

[duncan]

Hi All,
Just a quick comment. Before everyone is ready to judge I should mention that I saw the above mentioned site in September and was thrilled to see that it was in my home town. I live in a city that gets absolutely no caudates other than the usual "Chinese fire belly " at the local "Mega Pet Store." When I saw the variety of caudates being offered I was skeptical but also hopeful (me being the eternal optimist). I should also note that I had visited this site before, as they had for at least 2 years prior been selling very high quality geckos (high end leopard, albino fat tails and many more unusual species). I had also seen these animals at local herp shows and were always impressed, and first impressions of the dealer was very positive (I never actually introduced myself, this was based on how he answered questions and his display/conditions of animals etc). As mentioned, when I saw that they now were dealing in caudates (in a new updated website) I was cautiously optimistic.
I emailed the site and promptly got a response. In fact, I emailed them 4 times over a 2 week period and always got a response, and always with what I would consider faily sound advice. As I mentioned, I was initially skeptical and asked them outright if they actually had the animals in town. They told me yes and even emailed me a photo of 4 T. kweichowensis that were supposed to be someof their adult breeders. The photo was of some extremely impressive animals. I enquired about availablility of some of the their caudates and was given the following prices (all in Canadian dollars which is worth about 0.70 U.S) ; 4 T. kweichowensis at $100 each, Pachytriton labiatus 3 for $15, 1 T. shanjing at $60, 1 Cynops ensicauda at $30. I assumed these were animals that were over and above their breeding stock. I was also told that these animals, in addition to some of their breeders, would be at an upcoming herp show about 2 and a 1/2 hours away. I was unfortunately unable to attend the show and never did see the animals in person.
I guess everyone is entitled to jump to their own conclusions. Does this person have the animals? I think so. Is this person perhaps naive in thinking that their caudates will readily breed for next spring? Perhaps, but they have had success breeding reptiles, some of the species being much more difficult than the leos and fattails. Again, have I seen the caudates in person, no. Is it possible that they don't exist or are being misrepresented in some way? I guess so. Me the eternal optimist however, is hoping to pick up some Cynops and T. kweichowensis some time in 2004 (and no shipping charges either!). Remember, all you folks in caudate rich areas, you might be able to pick up a Paramesotriton sp. anytime, anywhere, but they've appeared just once in 5 years in my neck of the woods. I've gotta be optimistic otherwise I'll cry (lol). Anyway, just my take on the topic.
Duncan

 

[rob]

Hi Duncan,

I wrote them a long and very polite letter when I first found their site (back in September, same as you) telling them I was glad to see someone working with species...told them of my breeding projects, and asked them to respond to keep in touch with a fellow caudata enthusiast. Their website contains false information (as pointed out by Nate).

Now I'm like you....I try to give the benefit of the doubt (if you read up I defended the site somewhat at first), but something is not adding up here. I also would not call me waiting patiently for over two months now for a response from them jumping the gun.

Also, completely off this topic, I never knew you were from Canada. If you're looking for some species let me know...I may be able to find them from breeders at prices much more reasonable then those they are asking. I would rather support a breeder doing it for passion and charging to cover the food costs and maybe a little bit for their time, then a business doing it to make money. I mean I do wish them luck, but keeping caudata out of the lime light may help prevent even more bad collecting techniques that rape the wild populations to the point of no chance of surviving in some areas. That's just how I look at it. Either way though, if you buy from them I don't think less of you, and would love to keep in touch with another Canadian (I think all you lurking Canadians need to contact me!!!).

 

[casey]

For those of you who have a doubt that if Desert Designers have the newts, I can say "Yes"; I saw them in person in the Calgary Reptiles Show. I also ask them where they got the newts from and they told me that they hand pick them from a trip to Asia.