Can I Legally ship a Tiger Sally From Sask Canada to Ontario Canada??

[Wolferic]

The laws seemed messed.. Im getting different answers and need help from people who know.. The law states that I can legally buy one in Ontario own one in ontario. Now what about having one sent that is store bought from another province? Anyone know the answer to this? please help me out.

 

[FrogEyes]

Eastern tigers are federally protected, which means you can't touch the native eastern tigers. If you can possess tigers otherwise, then your only obstacle is whether they are legal in Saskatchewan [which may depend on species and subspecies]. I don't know Saskatchewan laws, but it comes down to this: if Saskatchewan treats the animals as a native form AND prohibits collection/sale/possession of native forms, then you shouldn't get them. That would be a violation of WAPPRIITA. If they don't protect native tigers, or the animals aren't defined as native, you're likely fine, assuming you're spot-on about ON laws.

Odds favor that last sentence. Check the HISS forums for Saskatchewan legalities.

In Alberta, all tigers are legal, native or otherwise. All protected Alberta species are illegal to possess, regardless of origin.

Federal law in Canada: Eastern tigers and BC blotched tigers are federally protected [SARA], so obtaining native animals from either of these places would be a violation of federal law. Likewise, obtaining them illegally from anywhere in the world is a federal violation [WAPPRIITA], though that could be difficult to establish [like the situation with Lurestan mountain newts].

Ontario law: lots of municipal by-laws to confirm, though you're likely safe, and many such laws are seldom enforced.
Native eastern tigers are protected, though I don't know how Ontario law deals with exotic specimens. You should double check exactly what the law says about tigers, as there are many species.
Also check the health laws. Odds are, you're safe here as well, since aquatic turtles are commonly sold in Ontario [and they tend to be a bigger concern]. Eg. - in Alberta, a number of turtles are legal to possess under the wildlife regulations, but the communicable disease regulations prohibit sale and import of a bunch of those.

 

[joeysgreen]

Saskatchewan has a provincial law needing a permit to bring any animals into the province. See www.hisscanada.com for a local forum with more details. Contact your Sask. Fish and Wildlife to get a permit; it's free and not hard to get.

Ian

 

[Wolferic]

SO in ALberta All tiger salamanders you said are legal? Legal to own and sell? As Far as Ontario is concerned All Tiger Salamanders are Legal to own as We don't have Any Native Tiger Salamanders anymore.. They are Extirpated. They were Eastern when we did have them. I got this info Straight from the MNR specialist for ontario.

The Eastern Tiger Salamander is not protected under CITES, thus requires no permits from CWS. You should, however, keep in mind that wildlife exiting the US regardless of being bred in captivity or wild must be declared on exit from the country. Some species may be of specific interest to the US Fish and Wildlife Service and/or protected under State law. There may be inspections or fees involved. The USFWS could provide more information:

Endangered Species Program: Home Page
http://www.fws.gov/permits/overview/overview.shtml
http://www.fws.gov/permits/Contacts/contacts.shtml

In Ontario, the Endangered Species Act (S.9(1)(b)) states that you cannot possess, transport, collect, buy, sell, lease, trade or offer to buy, sell, lease or trade an extirpated, endangered or threatened species listed on SARO. S.9(2) says that S.9(1)(b) does not apply to a member of a species that originated outside of Ontario and was lawfully killed, captured or taken in the jurisdiction from which it originated. It is your responsibility to ensure that the species was lawfully captured or taken.


So apon reading this as Long as its legal in the province then it originated there then i can bring it back into the province?

Does anyone else read it like that??

 

[Wolferic]

Well that is a permit to bring a animal in.. not one out though? I live in ontario not Sask.. so.. It wouldn't apply to me then?

 

[joeysgreen]

No, I don't think it would apply to you. (the Sask permit law)

It sounds like you're in the clear but it might be a good idea to have some sort of receipt or proof of purchase to track where your salamander came from should you ever be asked. However, since the salamander is extirpated, it might be safe to assume that it's obvious the animal came from outside of Ontario. It's not like your trying to keep spotted turtles.

Ian

 

[Wolferic]

Well act5ually looking into it Sask Law for the province states that you must need a permit to bring in and take out any animals in the province so its a good thing i looked.. though the Seller already sold The Salamanders in question... Though i have a lead for another two as well.. In the province... Si there any other things i will need? DOes anyone know? lol..

 

[Wolferic]

SO just to be clear as i did ship a Salamander from My province to Sask. Another Member wanted one bad enough so I purchased one here. She paid me for that. Then she paid for the use of a service to ship the little guy with the right containers and heat etc as it was in the winter and was like minus 20 when we shipped it lol. Anyhow Ontario did not need a permit to bring in or ship out but Sask needs permits coming in and leaving the province. Which was given to us the same day we asked for it. and we had like 60 days to get the animal there.. Anyhow it all went smooth enough and the Salamander got there alive and the next day:> without any issues:> SO if anyone ever needs to know there are the facts. Make sure to check province rules before sending a live animal like we did:> By the way the permit was free :>

 

[taherman]

Good to know. Can you post a link or contact info for where to obtain the permit? Thanks for following up on the forum.

 

[FrogEyes]

Saskatchewan Wildlife Import/Export Permit Application Form - Environment - Government of Saskatchewan

That's for Saskatchewan only. Most states and provinces in North America have no such requirements for unrestricted species, and at least some some allow 'illegal' animals to be moved securely through them. In the latter case, it sometimes requires permits, but not always, and normally requires that such animals be moved more or less directly through without undue stops. For those outside of these countries, you should know that there are really no boundary controls between states or between provinces. The laws may change, but there are no checks or confirmations when crossing the boundaries. Between countries, yes, but not between states or provinces. Alberta, which is adjacent to Saskatchewan, has no permit requirements whatsoever for unrestricted exotic species, nor any requirements or limitations concerning native "non-license" animals. Both may be freely imported, exported, sold, or possessed without paperwork, with the exception of the native gartersnakes [which have specific restrictions to protect them from den exploitation].

 

[waterlynx]

Just an FYI. Ontario's Endangered Species Act protection applies to a Tiger Salamander originating from within the Province of Ontario as stated above or applies to one that has been taken illegally from another jurisdiction, however Ontario's Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act clearly states that no person without authorization may possess. So if you are in possession of a Tiger Salamander here in the Province of Ontario "Ambystoma tigrinum" and you acquired it from outside of Ontario the law still applies. The listing is in Schedule 10 of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act "Specially Protected Amphibians". There are multiple offences that apply in this legislation as well as in the Endangered Species Act which address possession, commercialization, import, export, and propagation. There are sections in this Act that address species from other jurisdictions, hybrids, transporting through the Province to another jurisdiction, and special permits for possession, propagation, and sale.[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]If concerned you should be contacting an office of the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources who administrates these Acts and Regulations. That way if they show up at your door you can show them what they originally told you.[/FONT]

 

[Alley]

In Alberta, all tigers are legal, native or otherwise. All protected Alberta species are illegal to possess, regardless of origin.

Just going to elaborate on this point so their is no confusion. In Alberta Ambystoma tigrinum melanostictum for example is considered a native species. It is legal to catch and posses this species but it is illegal for us to sell a native species endangered or otherwise without permits even if the person wishing to buy resides in Alberta.

My fiance and I deal closely with Fish and Wildlife as we have run for a number of years "Reptile Rescue Alberta". We have been granted a number of permits so that when animals are found we can rehouse them in proper fashion whether it be in research facilities or other rescue operations for specific species.

 

[FrogEyes]

It is legal to catch and posses this species but it is illegal for us to sell a native species endangered or otherwise without permits even if the person wishing to buy resides in Alberta.

False.

Blotched tigers are non-license animals in Alberta, and non-license animals have no protection. All wildlife not otherwise designated is "non-game", and except where specified otherwise (such as "big game", "game fish", "controlled exotics"), the laws apply to "non-game". Non-license animals carry specific exemptions within the wildlife act, which includes killing, capturing, keeping in captivity, selling, and exporting. That is, non-license animals are legal to sell or export, without ANY permit required. There is an exception to that - the garter snakes are currently non-license, but they have specific exceptions in the law - the native ones can't be sold or exported, though all other provisions apply. Fish and Wildlife has even published and distributed a two page flier spelling these things out in non-legal terms. You can find extensive discussions and citations of the law on this here:
Alberta Reptile Laws - The Alberta Reptile and Amphibian Society
and here:
Alberta Reptile Laws - Edmonton Reptiles Forum
and the laws themselves here:
Alberta Queen's Printer: Legislation
Wildlife Regulation, page 118:

Non-licence animals - ss59(1) and 62(1) and (2)​

22

Non-licence animals that are lawfully killed or that are

possessed live in accordance with section 135 of this Regulation,
other than
(a) plains garter snake,
(b) wandering garter snake, and
(c) red-sided garter snake,
(d) repealed AR 91/2011 s2
are exempt from the application of sections 59(1) and 62(1) and (2)
of the Act.​

​

The "repealed" portion is the bullsnake. Repealed because it was changed to non-game status several years ago, making the clause redundant.

Alberta Queen's Printer: Legislation

Wildlife Act, pages 34-35:

Exportation of wildlife
59(​

1) A person shall not export wildlife from Alberta unless the

person is so authorized by a permit specifically authorizing the
exportation.
(2) ​

​

A person shall not issue a permit authorizing the exportation of​

​

a domestic cervid unless the person is satisfied that the animal is
being shipped by the owner of the animal or that owner’s agent.
​

​

RSA 2000 cW-10 s59;2003 c26 s17​

​

Trafficking in wildlife
62(​

1) A person shall not traffic in wildlife.

(2) ​

​

A person shall not be in possession of wildlife for the purpose​

​

of trafficking in wildlife.
(3) ​

​

Subsections (1) and (2) do not​

​

(a) apply if and to the extent that the trafficking or the
possession is specifically authorized by a permit or is
authorized by or under the Livestock Industry
Diversification Act,
(b) apply if the trafficking or possession is reasonably
incidental to the operation of a fur farm in accordance
with the Fur Farms Act or is in accordance with the Meat
Inspection Act or the Meat Inspection Act (Canada), or
(c) prevent a person from acquiring wildlife from the Minister
under section 9.
(4) ​

​

Each single act described in section 1(1)(gg)(i) or (ii) done in​

​

relation to a wildlife animal constitutes a separate act of trafficking
in wildlife.
​

​

RSA 2000 cW-10 s62;2003 c49 s13​

​

Put the Regulation and the Act together...
Act says wildlife can't be exported or sold.
Regulation says that part of the act does not apply to non-license animals, making export and sale legal for those species.

You'll find the list of non-license species on page 141 of the Regulation.

You should consult with your fiance on this. Christian should know all this by now.
​

 

[frogman]

Wow. That is exactly what i did. In IL I saw two tiger salamanders and bought them then shipped them to my home myself.

 

[Alley]

You'll find the list of non-license species on page 141 of the Regulation.

You should consult with your fiance on this. Christian should know all this by now.
[/LEFT]

Thank you Frog and Chris says hi. I did consult with him originally and did type out what he said as he was beside me when I wrote it. So I thought I was stating something "reliable" and correct hahaha. I appreciate the correction greatly as this gives me the ability to tell him that he was wrong. This is something I do not often get to do

This also helps out a friend of mine to so again thank you for the information.