C orientalis hides, won´t eat

[ambjoern]

[FONT=&quot]After a lot of reading in many forums and sites, about a month ago we bought a Cynops Orientalis, about 7 cm from nose to tip of tail. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]In the aquaterrarium, he at once hid under a log, and he has been hiding ever since, in different places, but always on land and under a log, or plant. What we have seen, he has not been in the water at all.

But the worst is that he does not eat (not for a month!). We have tested with shrimp, codfish, earthworms, and even tubifex (for fish). Yesterday, he was outside in the light for the first time, but did hardly move and did not look well. He did not touch the food (cod, shrimp, earthworms) that I put in front of his nose. This morning he was hiding again.

He may have eaten the small bugs crawling around on the moss, but not what we've seen.

The aquaterrariujm: 60 liter aquarium, about 15 cm waterdepth, about 1/2 of the surface is land composed by peat, various plants, roots. Plants in the water, sandy bottom. Slight circulation of the water (inner filter). About 21 degrees Celsius air temperature (a little high, I know, but it's hard to do anything about). Good ventilation, one 18 W fluorescent lamp at 10 hours/day for the plants.

What should we do?[/FONT]

 

[AngieD]

I'm not an expert in these matters, but have you tried him on bloodworms? That's what they normally get fed on in pet shops. The only other thing I can think of is try stopping the filter for a day or 2 and see if that's what has been bothering him.
As a side note - make sure his skin keeps moist
Sorry I can't offer anything more on the matter, I hope the little guy gets better soon

One last thing - this may sound patronising, but is he definitely a c.orientalis? some sellers incorrectly label amphibians (my paddle-tails were labelled 'fire belly newts')

 

[Azhael]

I´d recommend getting rid of the terrestrial area and using all the volume for water. A piece of floating cork bark is all you need. The larger the volume, the more stable and easier to maintain in good condition. Your newt is very seriously stressed. He went through hell when he was captured and imported and i bet an arm he received very negligent care at the pet-shop too. By the time you bought it it was tremendously stressed. In order to have any hope of recovery you need to offer excellent conditions and minimize stress as much as possible. A larger volume of water will help a great deal. Make sure you cycle the tank properly.
If you encrease the volume of water you can also get rid of the filter. This species, Hypselotriton orientalis prefers still water and can be stressed by currents, plus filters produce heat, and the cooler you keep your newt, the better. I´d very strongly recommend using a large amount of aquatic plants. Not only will they help in water quality but they will also make the animal much more comfortable in exploring the water section and eventually becoming aquatic, they really make a huge difference, specially if you have dense areas of plants that reach the surface.

Keep trying with the earthworms but stop trying with shrimp and cod, those are very unsuitable foods even if they were accepted. Try waxworms if you can get them, they are excellent for getting stressed newts to eat plus they are rich in fat and will help the newt recover.

Check the articles and caresheet in the links in my signature.

 

[Niels D]

I agree with Azhael. Can you post some pics, because I would really like to know if it's a orientalis. Two days ago there were P.labiatus (I believe they're called paddle-tails) offered as orientalis as well. This is in the Netherlands of course, but this sort of mix ups happen through out the world.

 

[Azhael]

While it´s very true (and very sad) that plenty of species are misslabeled in the pet-trade, being 7cm long i´d say it´s almost certainly going to be a H.orientalis.

 

[ambjoern]

Oh, thank you all - I thought Caudata would e-mail me If I got answers, but it hasn´t, so I didn´t check until now. Here are pics: http://i51.tinypic.com/10gwlt4.jpg (sorry about the colours). He was out walking a few centimeters today, but walked straight over the food ...

Should I get rid of the land part? I´ve been told that a real land part, not just a log in the water, is one of the best things one can give a salamander ...

I shall read the answers more carefully tonight. Thank you again.

 

[Azhael]

Definitely an Hypselotriton orientalis.
The thing is that this species is 100% aquatic in captivity. It´s a waste of space to dedicate part of the tank to land because once the animal is settled in and everything is stable and running well, it simply won´t be used. As i say, a piece of cork bark is sufficient because these newts very rarely, if ever, get out of the water at all.
In order for your newt to go back to water its quality needs to be excellent. Otherwise it will refuse to go aquatic, they can be very picky with water quality when they are terrestrial.
If your water chemistry is really good and you have lots of plants reaching the surface, it´s a matter of time until the newt goes aquatic, which will likely happen as soon as it becomes less stressed.

You need to get it to eat s soon as possible. Live foods are the only ones that are likely to be accepted for now. Waxworms are probably your best bet, few animals resist them.

 

[ambjoern]

Ok, I understand, I think. So I should do as follows:

1 - get it to eat, by giving live food, preferably waxworms.
2 - it eats - gets well - goes aquatic, and then I remove the land part.
3 - everyone is happy.

But then the question is ... what sort of a worm is a waxworm (google translate won´t give me an answer in Swedish)

By the way, how "bad" does it look from the photos?

 

[Azhael]

Waxworms are the larvae of two species of moth, Achroia grisella (lesser waxmoth) and Galleria melonella (greater waxmoth). Using the scientific name you may be able to find out the swedish name.

I think it would perhaps be better to move the animal into a small temporary terrestrial habitat (either with unbleached, moist paper towels or a real substrate), with several hides, and keep it in a shady, cool area. That should reduce stress and make the animal more likely to accept food. Meanwhile you can remodelate the tank, get rid of the land area, make sure to properly cycle it and get everything to be just right. Anyway, that´s what i´d do.

It doesn´t look THAT bad, but it needs to eat soon, it´s significantly underweight. If you get it to eat, it can still recover without problems, so no need to despair, hehe. Good luck!

 

[ambjoern]

Now I'm sad. Not just because the first little salamander died (he escaped from the small box without me noticing it when I was cleaning it, and was found under the bed after two days, very dry and stiff), but because the second one died too.

We bought the second one last monday, and he was so much different from the first - lively and swimming and chasing bubbles in the water and walking around and looking at us through the glass. He was like that monday, tuesday and wednesday, a lovely creature, but thursday we found him dead.

The difference in behaviour between the two salamanders made us think that the first one actually was sick from the start, but now I don't know. Is there anything that fire bell newts are "acutely allergic" to, or what can cause such a sudden death?

(I'm calling them both "he", since the 8-year-old simply decided they were boys)

It happened so fast, I don´t know what to think about it. He had a small wound on the tail (maybe 1x2 mm), but apart from that he was looking all healthy.

Worst is that the 8-year-old does not want to have a fire belly again. She loved the first and second ones too much to dare to try again ...

 

[fouramigos]

Hey,
I'm sorry to hear the bad news I too learned the hard way about Fire Bellied Newts, only I had 5 of these little guys that were bought and given to me as a gift, when I knew nothing about them except that they live in water...how wrong was I?
Well apparently my little guys were still juvenilles and were still in there terrestrial stage of morphing. I've had them for 6 months now, I've 2 in the process, one escaped, found him dried up and full of dust bunnies, and the secong one, well it's still unknown what exactly happened, it had just started going into the water which isn't deep, but the next morning it was dead.
As for feeding them, yeah that was a trip as well, sometimes they would eat chopped pieces of earthworm, other times they wanted meal worms...as a foot note though, meal worms are not a good staple diet for them, the shell is hard for them to digest, so I only gave them those if the were being REALLY fussy with the earthworms. I found out that blood worms are they're fav, and it's hard when they are terrestrial to feed them that, so I would thaw out the frozen blood worms in de-chlorinated water, used blunt ended tweezers and I would wriggle around and bounce it up and down in front of them, as if it was a live prey...that got their attention and I've been doing it that way since, now they are eating once every day no problems.
As for the tank set up, I don't have a filter yet because my water level was low, just enough water to cover them and they can stand up to get air. Out of the 3 I have left, 2 of them love being in the water, I still have one that is shy about the water. I will be adding more water and leaving rest areas that are slighty covered in water. I have a 20 gallon with 3 newts, I believe 2 are females and one is male, but I'm judging this by their sizes so I could totally be wrong, but their sizes would be about 4 inches (10 cm) which I believe is the male, and the other 2 are about 3.5 inches (8.5 cm), I've witnessed the 2 in the water shedding...which is when I believe they start going into the water.
They are delicate animals when they are stressed, and it's take sometime for them to de-stress, once that happens then they are easy to care for, but because they are removed from the wild and not bred in captivity, their stress levels are out of this world! I felt bad having these guys once I found this out...again my newts were given to me as a gift, if I were to buy them myself, I would have done my research on them before hand. Most pet shops have no clue as to what these guys need to de-stress when they arrive at the pet shop, and then they get scooped up again and transfered all over again to a whole new tank and mates and all.
Please don't let this sad experience discourage you from getting them or any other little critter again, just make sure if you do choose them again that you do research on the species first (this message board has been awesome for that with my experience) and also you can see if there is a breeder on here somewhere so that you're not contributing to the catching of wild ones
I don't know if any of this was helpful, but you are not alone when it comes to having no clue how to care for these little guys, I'll see if I can post a video I took of their feeding time and how I go about doing it, until then, maybe try a furry animal for your 8 year old since the newts really aren't the type of animal that you can handle because they breathe through their skin and you have to make sure your hands are clean before and after you hold them, they naturally release toxins, not poisoness, but not good if a child puts their hand in their mouth after handling them.
I am not a pro, I'm just letting you know about my experiences with them so far, but you will get tons of info off here if you still need it Good luck!