Buying and cycle advise please! :o)

[seksee]

Hello all

Over the last few months i have been scouring the forums and the axoltl.org website and decided that i cant wait to get a little axie! Just looking for a little bit of advice on things i cant find the answers to please..

So, at the moment, i have my 24" x 15" x 12" tank setup up and 3/4 full with dechlorinated water with an internal filter running. I have created somewhere for the axie to hide from the light and covered the rest of the tank in black pebbles (too big to be eaten ofcourse!). So now i am playing the cycle waiting game!

I read somewhere that including an ornament or another object from an already established tank helps speed things up a little so i am planning on 'borrowing' and ornament or two from a friends tropical tank (very well established) - i am also planning to include a few plants for the bacteria to cling to, which is best? real or plastic? also, how often should i be doing a water change during this period?

Would it help if i removed some of the water or is more water more effective? and what can i put in the water for the bacteria to feed on? somebody mentioned brine shrimp but is there anything else i could use? i have frozen blood worm - would that do the trick?

sorry about all the questions there but i am extremely eager to get my little axie dude or dudette!

Also, before i realised there was even such a thing as a tank cycle, i went on the hunt for a leucistic axie. i found two pet shops in Manchester who sold axies (probably best not to name them!) one of the shops has promised to have them in stock 3 times and never actually got any.. the other shop had 3 axies but all 3 of them were in such a bad way it disgusted me (one of the axies had lost both arms and one leg!) so i walked out before my girlfriend had chance to persuade me to rescue all of them!

So now i'm back to square one - can anybody recommend anywhere in the Manchester area to get an axolotl? i've read that its best to avoid pet shops so can anybody recommend a reliable bredder/stockist?

Many thanks for reading and any replies would be hugely appreciated! (although bear in mind that i am a complete amateur so lamens terms would be awesome! )

Thanks again

 

[dragonlady]

Hi there,

See if this helps clarify some confusion about the cycling process - Cycling Just a little fish flake food will do the trick for feeding but read the article.

You mentioned an internal filter, you will need to make sure that that filter is not raising the temp too much. That being said, if you don't have one, you need a decent thermometer and testing kits for pH, Ammonia, nitrite/nitrate. All these tests can be purchased together in a Master Freshwater Test kit. Yes, the test kit will be a little pricey, but it will be invaluable to you over the course of cycling and keeping your axie healthy. You can usually find it online cheaper than in a store. If you choose to buy them separately, please get the drop style tests as they are more accurate.

If you choose to go with real plants, you can find a list of possibilities at the bottom of this page - Plants. If you choose plastic, just make sure the edges won't injure the delicate skin of an axolotl. You will want to make sure the ornaments are axie safe too. Bacteria will cling to any surface. Read that article and if you still have questions, just ask!

A note about the rocks, I'm glad you chose large ones but what you may find is that these are extremely difficult to keep clean as lots of nasties get trapped in the gaps between and under. Despite your best housekeeping efforts, gunk still accumulates. I prefer sand personally.

If you choose to change over, make sure the sand is quartz/silica based. Children's playsand is a popular, inexpensive choice or you may choose aquarium sand. I suggest sifting the sand for gravel and then rinse it out like crazy! Put it in a large bucket, force the end of a garden hose down in the middle and wait until the water runs clear. It will take a long time, but the cleaner you get the sand, the better.

Once you are ready for your new buddy, check the For sale section at the bottom of the Forum Index page or you can post an ad in the Wanted section, also at the bottom of the Forum Index page.

Welcome to the oh so addictive world of axolotls!

 

[Skunk]

Glad that you are asking about cycling

I'd be wary of adding ornaments from another tank as you never know whether they have parasites or not, plus you will have to keep them wet while you transport them.

If you're wanting real plants, then you will need a lighting system of some sort, which of course axies don't like If your tank is in a sunny-ish room you could get away with java moss, or fern, but keep it plastic, cheaper in the long run and you can get some good realistic looking plants nowadays.

Remember that the water in a tank does not contain much bacteria, so, using water from an establish tank wont do much good

Concerning water changes, you won't need to do any until your tank has been fully cycled, around 4-6 weeks. When you want to introduce your new axies, do a 75% water change with dechlorinated water.

Here to help!

Feel free to ask for me to clear anything up

 

[dragonlady]

A 75% water change is too much at any one time, at most a 50% would be advisable in some situations. It is true that water contains little bacteria, however, a huge water change can drastically change your chemistry. As previously stated, please read the article on cycling, if you have questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

As far as real plants, it's really a personal choice. There are many, many out here who have fully planted tanks and have very low maintenance. I use java moss and marimo balls but others get much more extravagant than that.

Also, advising against lights for an axolotl is okay, but then you contradict by saying to put the tank in a sunlit room...The link I provided include plants that thrive well in low light conditions.

good point about the dechlorinated water, I did forget to mention that you may want to use a good water dechlorinator. Unless you have a private well, several parts of the UK use chloramines in the water which won't evaporate as chlorine will so you will need to use a dechlorinator. I recommend Aquasafe, Prime, or AmQuel+. You should be able to get a water report from your local public works dept.

 

[Skunk]

Of course, it is different for many, and I like to start off with fresh water before adding any livestock, hence I recommend the 75% change, this would be a one off, and is dependent on the size of the tank.

Only reason I contradicted myself is that there is a bit of a difference between typical tank lighting, and natural light through a window, or a room where the light is on for a good few hours, like a living room. Typical tank lighting being a lot more direct

It's a good idea to have a really good research on all areas of setting up your tank, seksee, as it is better to be informed than to panic over something that is normal! Such as a leucistic's gills going bright red due to activity!

Good luck with your future axies!

 

[seksee]

hey guys

thank you both very much for taking the time to give such detailed replies!

firstly, thank you for the links you provided - i didnt even know that info existed on this website! :wacko: i have read the plants page and have decided to settle for plastic plants, mainly because i hate snails! and also, i was going for a kind of orange and black theme and im quite sure there isnt going to be a huge amount of orange plants out there!

i didnt even think the temperature aspect with the internal filter so thanks for the heads up! at the moment, its pretty frickin cold over here so shouldnt be a problem at the moment although it is something to bear in mind for the summer... its only a cheapo filter i got thrown in with the tank so my plan was the replace it with a better one at some point anyway

my original plan was to use a low partition/retainer wall thing i saw in a pet shop to create a cool half sand half pebble arrangement - i'll have to see how i get on and probably replace the pebbles if they become a problem

i will be going out this weekend to get myself a water testing kit then, although the link doesnt mention water changes during fishless cycling? so its best not to change any water then?

but i will be scouring the For Sale pages for the next few weeks and try find my new companion and will definately be avoiding that shop tho.. i cant believe a friend actually recommended them!

i cant remember what else i wanted to ask.. but i'm sure it will come to me at some point but you guys have been extremely helpful, so thanks again!

 

[Skunk]

No problem We were all new to the hobby and wanted the help

Yeh, best not to change As Shannon said, most wouldn't recommend a water change as drastic as 75% before adding the fish. If you were to do water changes, each time you added fresh water you'd be changing the chemistry of the Ammonia, NitrItes and NitrAtes, and upsetting the cycle.

I've never had a problem with water temp in the UK, even during the summer So, I wouldn't worry about that too much just yet.

When you get your testing kit, I'd suggest getting the API Master Kit with the droppers, and not the paper as the latter is a lot less accurate.

This is what you're looking for, mine was around £20, but definitely worth the money as it lasts years and you will make use of it I remember when I got mine I was testing everyday

On buying axies, I would buy from reputable breeders from here. Though both of mine came from a pet shop. You're looking for good general health, interest in food, no unusual marks that could be pH burn, etc. I wouldn't worry too much about missing limbs, as this is very common among young axies, and of course they regenerate.

Good luck!

Remember, any more questions, just ask

 

[seksee]

Hey guys

just a quick update really - i've ordered the master test kit! should be here in a few days, £20 so not too bad..

i chucked some fish flakes into the tank to provide ammonia but its made the whole tank cloudy and dirty looking.. kinda stinks a little bit too.. is that supposed to happen?

i had a quick look on the For Sale section and there doesnt seem to be much on offer really... maybe i'll post something in the wanted section and see if i get lucky! failing that, i'll have to see if the pet shop can actually deliver on its promises!

 

[Skunk]

Could you take some pics of the tank? Odd for the fish flake to do that, you do need to put in just a very small amount once a day, could be that you're putting too much in?

 

[seksee]

its probs because i put too much in... i tried to fish some of it out with a sieve but obviously not enough! also the flakes were a bit mashed up too and werent very solid pieces... i shouldve seen this coming :uhoh:

so should my filter clear this up eventually? would it be a good idea to clear the bits of flake etc out of the filter?

 

[Skunk]

I'd just leave it as it is then, your filter will clear it up Just leave it a good few days until its clear before adding anymore, as you'll have provided a good source for the next few days at least! For future reference, just add two flakes, and crumble them up, you need very little

 

[seksee]

TWO flakes??? oh my god i put about 50 in lol

i'll give it a few days... or even weeks then atleast i'll get some big fat juicy well-fed bacteria

thanks again for your advise!

 

[Skunk]

Haha 50!

Yeh, you really only need the smallest amount! Make sure when you feed your axies, you don't give them that amount Not that you'd be feeding them fish flake anyway!

 

[seksee]

howdy

just a quick update - my testing kit arrived today so ive just tested my water - here are my results:

pH - 6.8
Ammonia - 0.5
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0

so i take it from this that my cycle is just starting? i added the ammonia source on Saturday (fish flakes - loads of them ) and there are still loads of flakes bits trapped betwen the stones (as you guys predicted) - i suppose my only questions really are:

are these results about right? just that i thought the ammonia readings should be higher?

this is going to take a long time isnt it...

 

[seksee]

Somebody mentioned on another website that if there is less water in the tank then it will cycle more quickly? Do you think it would helps things if i remove say 50% of the water?

Thanks again!

 

[Skunk]

It may cycle faster, but when you add more water and your axies, you'll potentially overload your filter, meaning the ammonia and nitrites will rise.

You're right, your cycle is just started, basically it'll go like this:

Food source >> Ammonia >> NitrItes >> Nitrates

So, over the next few weeks, your ammonia will rise, as your NitrItes will follow, before going to NitrAtes, which can be removed with water changes

Expect your ammonia and nitrIte levels to get pretty high, add your fish flake as I've said before, and just give it time

When you think it's perfect, continue to add your fish flake for another week to keep the bacteria alive, and check the parameters again, just to make sure there isn't gonna be a spike before it settles again.

Then you can give it a good vac for the gravel (though I would opt for sand) and top it back up with dechlorinated water, and you're ready to go

 

[seksee]

oh ok well i'll leave the water level as it is then - dont wanna spend weeks doing this and then let it mess up!

yeah, from what i learnt from the guides, i kinda figured that the cycle is just starting out - although i thought the ammonia levels would be higher at this stage? (especially due to the amount of fish flakes i first put in! )

although, all the murkiness has cleared up a treat! must be a good filter after all

how often should i be putting some fish flakes in the water?

now that i have seen how much of a problem the stones are with stuff getting stuck between/under, my plan is now to cover the bottom of the tank with sand (orange) and then create some kind of feature or something better with the pebbles on top of the sand. do i still need to wash the sand? it was thrown in as part of the deal with the tank from the pet shop although it has no markings on the packaging to say what kind of sand it is...

i think i owe you one for all these replies

 

[Skunk]

Concerning the sand I'd be a bit cautious! It's best to go for definite aquatic sand, otherwise you dont know what it could be. Unipac is very very good, I have a 30"x18" tank, and I used 5 of the 2.5kg bags (so 12.5kg) and it gave a good 1-1.5" coverage across the whole of the tank! Also, cause they're small bags, they are so much easier to carry upstairs (my axies are in my bedroom) and to wash, as my only water source, or nearest, is a sink in my room (lucky me ).

Whatever sand you do use, you must wash it at least twice. What I do is but 2 of the bags in a storage box (I use a 16L one from The Range), and add a good few jugs of cold water, mix it around and leave it for 10 mins, before pouring the water out and doing the same again, before adding the sand to the tank.

Unipac tends to be quite clean, but its always best to give it a rinse.

On the ammonia levels, it'll probably take a while for the flake to actually decompose enough to show a good result of ammonia, though being trapped between stones could also be delaying this.

I'd put fish flakes in once a day, a very small amount like I said before

Don't worry about asking so many questions, it's good to be able to reassure someone I do it a lot with my Ranchus (japanese goldfish) who do odd things too