breeding Torosa

[rigsby]

Has anyone had success breeding Torosa, mine are driving me nuts, the females seem to fill up with eggs,they enter the water but nothing. If anyone knows the secret please PLEASE let me into it.

 

[apples]

Hi Ian,

First off, are you sure your animals are T. torosa? Secondly, how many animals and what setup do you have?

There's not a lot of information on the exact conditions that trigger Taricha mating. Some have found it easy and some have found it difficult. There was a previous thread discussing this (http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=48785) (note: please do not revive the post, but you can contact the poster through private messaging if necessary).

~
Pin-pin

 

[rigsby]

thanks Pin-pin ,they are definately Torosa, i have six in a 50/50 land water set up, when they enter the water i place them in a aquatic set up with floating cork bark. I hibernate them over the winter in my garage in the 50/50 set up.

 

[Jennewt]

I would actually say that captive breeding of Taricha is pretty rare, considering the large number of people who keep T. granulosa in the US. It's very common to find reports on this forum about randy Taricha mating behavior, but very rare to hear about eggs. (In comparison, reports of unexpected eggs from Cynops are quite common.)

Audrey's success (link given by Pin-pin) makes me suspect that light cycles, light intensity, or maybe even UV light may be a factor. Even through glass, a small fraction of UV light does come through. If I were going to try breeding them, I think I might try giving them some kind of full-spectrum lighting, set on a timer to simulate natural light cycles.

Note that I am purely speculating here. I have no experience!

 

[rigsby]

thanks Jen, but i've already tried that. I've bred redbacks, shanjing and paddletails this year in fact the Torosa are the only ones i have set out to breed which didn't

given the size of this one she was ready.

 

[louise]

I wish you every success, Ian. Would be good to get some CB tarichas in the UK.

 

[uwe]

could you be so shure that they are T.torosa?

Most of the animals, not to say all, sold as torosa are granulosa.

Best Regards

Uwe

 

[rigsby]

can't be a 100% uwe without seeing thier teeth but they were bought from Hamm as Torosa and most have the light coloured lower eye lid.....ian

 

[uwe]

Hi Ian,

when you bought them at Hamm you might be 99% shure that they are T. granulosa.

The teeth is no way as long as tze animals live. The color of the eyes are not precise.

There is an other way. The defensive posing of the animal when treated "not well". This is described in the literature.

But, animals in the common trade are mostly T.granulosa.

Uwe

 

[Jennewt]

Hi Uwe, do you have any general breeding advice for T. granulosa (or torosa)? A lot of people want to have breeding from their Taricha, but it does not happen, even though the animals are well-fed and cool in winter. What do you think are the "triggers" for causing them to breed? I know you are probably the most-experienced person with breeding Taricha.

 

[uwe]

Hi Jennifer,

the husbandry and brreding hints are published on the web-site of the AG Urodela:

http://www.ag-urodela.de/daten_arten/taricha/taricha_haltung.htm

If someone considers that a translation would be worthwhile or helpful, I may consider doing it.

The general for T.gran. is: keeping them outdoors in a fully aquatic set-up. In fall at declining temperatures (app. 10°C) they start to mate. After the could in winter they start to lay eggs in Spring. Sometimes I was able to introduce egg-laying in late spring by adding ice from the icemaschine to the water.
Important: eggs have to be removed.

Hope that helps. So far no experience in T.torosa.

See you

Uwe

 

[Jennewt]

Uwe, thanks! If you can make a translation, I would be happy to polish it and post it on CC.

Ian, when you said above "I already tried that", were you referring to UV light specifically? There are animals (reptiles, frogs) whose behavior is known to be affected by light in the UV range, and UV is something that usually takes special arrangements to replicate indoors. What if Taricha were animals of this sort? That would explain Uwe's success with temperature cycling outdoors. Some window glass allows a small fraction of UV light to come through, which might explain occasional success indoors. All of this is idle speculation on my part.

 

[rigsby]

fingers crossed but four of my six have entered the water and stayed there.Since i bought them they've all remained on land.

 

[Otterwoman]

I'm trying to understand more about sources for UV light. I tried reading about it on Wikipedia...I'm just not sure I'm getting it. Are regular fluorescent light bulbs a source of UV light in any significant amount, or do I have to buy special lights? I just recently rigged up the newt area in the basment with 4 foot flourescent lights, on a timer which I'm periodically adjusting to mimic outside light. They get a small amount of natural light from the basment windows, not very much at all though. I wonder, if the fluorescent lights aren't enough, whether I could get 4 foot bulbs (to fit the lights I hung up) that emit UV light then?

Also I noticed, they sell plenty of timers that will turn your lights ON at dusk and OFF at dawn, but not vice-versa, which would be perfect for us!

 

[fishkeeper]

Hopefully a reptile person responds...but this is my understanding.

All bulbs emit soem amount of UV, but it is of little consequence esp. through glass. Thus, special bulbs that emit UV light are bought for those reptiles that need them. Note that their are bulbs that emit mostly UV light that are sometimes sold(blacklights). I can't figure out a reason why they are sometimes offered but people who keep scorpions may use them briefly to find their captives.

 

[Abrahm]

I'm trying to understand more about sources for UV light. I tried reading about it on Wikipedia...I'm just not sure I'm getting it. Are regular fluorescent light bulbs a source of UV light in any significant amount, or do I have to buy special lights? I just recently rigged up the newt area in the basment with 4 foot flourescent lights, on a timer which I'm periodically adjusting to mimic outside light. They get a small amount of natural light from the basment windows, not very much at all though. I wonder, if the fluorescent lights aren't enough, whether I could get 4 foot bulbs (to fit the lights I hung up) that emit UV light then?

Also I noticed, they sell plenty of timers that will turn your lights ON at dusk and OFF at dawn, but not vice-versa, which would be perfect for us!

Well, the important thing to discuss here is what spectrum of UV light? There are three different ones that are commonly refered to: UVA, UVB and UVC.

UVA is given off in some amount by most "Full Spectrum" bulbs that are sold at arts and crafts stores for reading. It's near ultraviolet and not beneficial. UVB is the beneficial rays that help promote production of Vitamin D3 and calcium metabolism. UVC is harmful and is used in germicidal bulbs in microbiology labs and clinics.

Your regular fluorescent bulbs probably give off some UVA... maybe, but they will not give off UVB unless you bought the special bulbs (usually 40 bucks a piece and they do come in 4 foot sizes) sold at pet stores. These bulbs have special coatings that produce UVB radiation, but this coating wears off in six months to a year and they need to be replaced.

The need for UV light in newts is not well known and this would be a shot in the dark as far as being able to stimulate mating behavior.

Some other notes on UVB. It does not travel through glass well and 95% of the UVB is scattered/absorbed by glass. Screen meshes also scatter a lot of UVB. The optimal light path from source to the animals should be 12-18" for proper absorption. This may not be necessary for promoting newt mating. Just letting you know.

Hopefully a reptile person responds...but this is my understanding.

All bulbs emit soem amount of UV, but it is of little consequence esp. through glass. Thus, special bulbs that emit UV light are bought for those reptiles that need them. Note that their are bulbs that emit mostly UV light that are sometimes sold(blacklights). I can't figure out a reason why they are sometimes offered but people who keep scorpions may use them briefly to find their captives.

Black lights are bad choices for animals (and people) they can cause damage to the eyes (I believe because they emit very small quantities of UVC, but I'm not sure)

Melissa Kaplan's website has some good articles on lighting and UVB. It is in relation to iguanas and other lizards but it would still be useful.

 

[Otterwoman]

I was thinking about UV light since Jenn mentioned it above in this thread as a possible route of exploration.
Maybe what I'll do is try my setup this year, and if I don't have any luck, next year try to add a small UV full spectrum light to the tank instead of messing with the whole setup, since the 4 foot lights are about 3 feet from the tank, and not directly over it, lighting up the entire area. So their light is getting scattered by everything, glass, wire mesh, etc.