Bought this newt tonight...

[meghan]

THe girl at the pet shop said it was hers and she's had it for over 11 years. Said it was a c.o.... Doesn't look like one to me. Bought it anyways out of curiosity. She's lighter brown than the other c.o., belly has a lot less orange with more whitish dots which blend. Anyone care to clarify?

 

[garrison]

I'd say the same, lucky you

 

[paris]

he doesnt look very happy!, but yes-the fingers, skin type and belly pattern give him away as a japanese fire belly...if your ever interested in swapping him or getting rid of him-i have a female of exactly that same pattern on the belly. all my other males came cb from a friend and have the 2 row big spot patterns.

 

[ralf]

Yup, Cynops pyrrhogaster, possibly Sasayama-race.

(Message edited by ralf on January 16, 2005)

 

[jesper]

I thought sasayama(sasayamae?) was a subspecies - the only one of the pyrrhogaster-"complex".
The races would be nominates then I suppose...

Can someone clear that up?

 

[meghan]

Asked the girl what she was feeding her (guessing by the look of the cloaca, it's female?) and apparently she's been on a diet of live guppies. I bought a dozen just to get her started with some firmiliarity in her new home. Suppose it's possible to 'teach an old dog new tricks' and gradually switch her over to blackworms? If so, what suggestions?
Paris- I'll keep you in mind!

 

[paris]

tail looks about the same size as body by the photo-that would make it a male. guppies are a hard food item for a newt that typically will eat just about anything. bloodworms, worm chunks, blackworms, krill, beef heart, canned cat food (small minced type), turtle food sticks, crickets, waxworms...etc-just about anything except broccoli-is what mine eat.

 

[meghan]

Thanks Paris!

 

[mark]

You probably already know it is a pyrroghaster by now, but I'l put in my two cents anyways. I have C.o.s and pyrroghaster, and it definatly looks more pyrroghaster, with all its size and coloration, and its skin looks a bit rought too.

 

[ralf]

Jesper, to my knowledge still no valid subspecies has been described for Cynops pyrrhogaster. Here is some info given on the Cynops-pages on Paul Bachhausens "Salamanderseiten" (www.salamanderseiten.de).
According to research by the Japanese HAYASHI work-group Sasayama is no valid subspecies but a phenotype occuring in a crossbreeding zone of neighbouring pyrrhogaster-groups. However, this is still debated among scientists and hobbyists. The following genetically distinct groups could be identified by the methods that were applied:
-Northeastern Group
(complying with the former so-called Tohuko race).
- Kanto Group
(former Kanto race)
- Intermediary Form
(includes the former intermediary form as well as the former Atsumi and Sasayama-races)
- Western Japanese Group
(complies with most of the former Hiroshima race)
- Southern Kyushu Group)
(complies with a small area within the southernmost distribution of the former Hiroshima race).

References:
Hayashi, T. & Matsui, M. (1988), Biochemical differentiation in Japanese newts, genus Cynops (Salamandridae), Zoological Science

Hayashi, T. & M. Matsui (1990): Genetic differentiations within and between two local races of the Japanese newt, Cynops pyrrhogaster, in eastern Japan. – Herpetologica 46: 423-430

Still a lot of research to be concucted I suppose and still no definite answers concerning the subspecies status of some pyrrhogaster forms, sorry Jesper. From my own experience I can say that the various forms can be very different concerning phenotype and behaviour. Also I have not observed any "phenotype-splitting" within the offspring of my C.p.s. so far. However, one has to keep in mind that one keeps groups of individuals that do not provide an actual overview of the wild populations.

 

[jesper]

I'm sorry to say that my knowledge concerning pyrrhogaster is not what it should be, I had the idea that one of the distinguishing trademarks of sasayama(e?) is the greater size compared to the other "races"....I suppose this is wrong then?

Thanks for clearing that up Ralf. Are these articles available at Paul's site?

 

[ben-lee]

thats a Cynops Pyrrhogaster right?