Black sand, Black worms and murky water.

[Stumpy]

Hey all

I've only just recently added a chiller to my tank set up, and since there's been quite a large amount of turbulance in my tank (just whilst getting the dang filter to connect up properly) and it's blown about a jolly good deal of my tank sand. And what I happened to find, hiding in my sand, is a small colony of blackworms who could have been there for... hmmm, anything up to a month!

Would these newly kicked up dead blackworms be the cause of my murky looking tank? I always remove excess after feeding, but some have burrowed away from me 0__0"
(It's been quite foggy for the last three days. Params are A=0, no2 = >0.2, no3 =5, and ph = 7. Also, the sand's about a centimetre thick, and a little built up in some areas, but they change and get flattened each feeding time)

Needless to say, some of those had died in this time, but i'd say about 80% were live.
The other new additions to this tank are my two new beautiful little wildtypes --
I'm wondering if it would be ok to leave the blackworms in the sand now? I heard that axies use smell to find their food, and that they're known for rooting around in the substrate, so would this then logically mean that they could find these little worms and thus their dinner?
I ask because they're a pain to vacuum out once they're the sand, there's always some left behind. I intend on trying a variant on the dish feeding method in future, so anyone with experience? Give us some tips?

 

[Darkmaverick]

My tank has a colony (and growing one) of blackworms in the sand substrate. They were survivors from previous feeding sessions and found their way out of the feeding dish into the sand.

I actually think they are beneficial. They wiggle through the sand substrate and prevent anaerobic gases forming. They are very hardy and can flourish with minimal care as they are full aquatic inveterbrates. They feed on microscopic remnants of detritus and make a handy snack for feeder fish and axies alike.

I have seen my axies snuffle through the sand and gulped in sand with blackworms in it. Thereafter they spit the sand out (with some of the worms) but i am sure inevitably some get consumed.

I don't think the worms caused the murkiness. I suspect its the new chiller and associated water turbulence that is doing that. Have you tried using a spray bar for the outtake? You may also like to rinse and unclog your filter media because sometimes accumulated debris makes the filtration less efficient.

If you see clumps of dead blackworms, it is of course best to remove them promptly. Dead anything fouls the water.

 

[Stumpy]

Well, the spray bar that the filter was using is now attached to the outlet pipe from the chiller. It's currently facing the back wall, and not causeing much water turbulance if any.

It's good to hear that the worms must be somewhat helpful, or at least just not detrimental
I'll view it as if I have my own little aquatic worm farm~

But yes, the tank is still foggy even though there is no current turbulence. Basically it became foggy about three days ago when all the sand was whipped up in one go, and it's still foggy now -- if a little bit better. The fog doesn't appear to be sand or other bits of substrate, but just very fine particles of something that looks to be organic, and in someway whitish coloured. At first I was concerned it would turn out to be algae, but it is in absolutely no way green nor is it building up on the tank walls. Hummm... I guess best case is it just fades over time :/

 

[Shizeric]

I would suggest getting rid of them, axolotls may root around, but odds are they won't, especially when they are accustomed to being fed by you. Naturally some of the worms are going to die while buried in your sand, and you don't want them rotting and possibly having negative affects on your water quality.

 

[Stumpy]

Yeah, I would have been worried about my water quality, but so far it's shown no real issues since they were dug up. Safe to say, I'm just curious as to why they havn't ruined my water, and why they were still even alive after so long. It does seem that Ray's right, worms are vital to almost every established ecosystem, and that applies to aquatic ones too. It makes sense, I mean where else would an axolotl find a worm in the wild, apart from sniffing it out of the ground?

 

[Darkmaverick]

If you use a gravel siphon, you might be able to remove all the worms from the sand substrate but it would take quite a lot of effort. Live blackworms also produce waste so that may be contributing to the organic debris. Unlike frozen-thawed bloodworms and earthworms (that can drown) that decompose rapidly, blackworms do naturally live in sandy/muddy waters and so don't drown as such. You may also try activated carbon in your filter to help rid organic debris.

 

[Coastal Groovin]

I recently added sand to my Axie tank and thought it was very clean but it took 3 weeks to clear up totally. I think your cloudiness is from all your sand being stirred up and not the worms. If the worms were dieing your water chemisrty would be off the charts. If you feed black worms some will always make it into the sand no matter what you do. I think all my tanks have "wild" blackworms in the substrate. Which just add to my natural biological filtration. Worms are natures cleaners.

 

[Stumpy]

I just don't think it could be the sand at all. Our sand is black, and it's quite obvious when it's floating around -- that, and whilst the worms have been in the tank for a month, the sand's been in for two and it's pretty set on staying sunk. We're going to change over the carbon in the filter tonight, maybe it's just full...

 

[Stumpy]

Also, how often should a filter be cleaned / what parts of it should be rinsed thoroughly?
*Slight* amount of worry that I may have broken the cycle in my tank -- Water params are rising a little and the lotls look a bit uncomfortable, mostly just restless.
It has just two parts, a charcoal box and a sponge...
A > 0.1 NO2 > 0.2

Oh, also a note to anyone perusing magazines in aus, if you pick up a mag titled "lotl" thinking it's about 'lotls, it's not. It was in fact "lesbians on the loose", and while good for a laugh, was dissapointingly not about my lotls

 

[Darkmaverick]

I think with regards to filter maintenance, its really setting your own routine that works best for you. I rinse the filter media of any solid debris once every 6 weeks. I cooincide that with my regular water change.

I use an external canister filter and have the zeolite and carbon granules in a 'bag'. These, i replace once a month. With chemical filtration, it is better to replace small quantities regularly than a big heap rarely. All these granules will require presoaking to get rid of particulate matter, otherwise your tank will become really cloudy per replacement.

 

[Stumpy]

The tank has shown very little improvement, even after diluting the water with partial changes. The params however have stabilised, A=0, NO2=0, NO3=10 I think maybe the cycle wasn't quite strong enough to match the new load of axies in the tank, so I swapped the guppies out into a large bowl for a day or so -- The "gup cup" has now been put back in seeing as the tank now seems to be able to handle a little more waste (Though there are still a few in my quarantine tank, I'll add them back gradually)

We have changed the carbon in our filter canister, and to be honest I did think I'd soaked it enough.
What are your opinions on aquarium clearing products? I am absolutely loathe to use extra concoctions on my tank if I don't really need to, just it's been frustrating that I can hardly see my axies through the murk. The stuff I saw last time at the petshop was equivalent to this, just another brand (I think it was nutrafin)

"Sera Aquaria Clear
Sera Aquaria Clear removes the cloudiness of aquarium water, quickly, easily and reliably. The bound particles are collected by the filter within a few minutes. Sera Aquaria Clear is biologically active and does not contain any harmful active substances.

Directions: Before application, the carbonate hardness of the aquarium water must by all means be checked using a kH test kit and be increased to at least 5°dkH if it is lower.
Afterwards add 5ml per 20 litres of aquarium water."

The site does not actually have a list of the chemical ingredients nor even just the active one for this formula which makes it really quite iffy, but I imagine that it works much like flock does in a pool, binding and sinking out the suspended particles.
Any opinions on this kind of stuff?
I'm going out today to pick up more blackworms for my babies, and might just snag a bottle of this. Even if it ends up unsuitable for my lovely lotls, the guppy tank could probably do with a bit of a clear anyway.

 

[Darkmaverick]

I would personally not use them on my axies or even guppy tanks.

Firstly i do not like chemical products that don't clearly label or indicate their composition.

Secondly, these products may contain 'preservatives' or 'stabalisers' that may be ok for fish but toxic or irritant to amphibian skin.

Thirdly, i strongly feel that your tank is on the way to being fully cycled. Coupled with a good filter and regular water changes, water clarity and parameters will improve substantially. You are absolutely right about stocking capacity. Too many animals in a tank too quickly can cause parameters to go awry.

Most of these aquarua clear type products rely on clumping smaller particles in the water so that they sink or precipitate. Neither of which is actually removing them. It is more of a temporary cosmetic measure. Ultimately it still requires filteration, water changes and siphoning up detritus anyway for removal. I think you should save your money on that one.

 

[Stumpy]

Wise words, which also quite happily fit in with my very own waning wallet~
I may be getting a little bit impatient with it, having finally gotten my lotls and being unable to even see them... but thanks for the quick reply, you are right it would be best to wait it out rather than to apply a quick and potentially dangerous cosmetic fix.
It may be bizarre, but I actually think the guppies may be safe for a little while in the tank, the blue guppy chased my speckly lotl into hiding behind the filter. At what age (length) should an axie start to take interest in feeder fish? These guys are maybe just under 10cm in length.

 

[Darkmaverick]

What an evil blue guppy. I have yet to seen an aggressive one but it must be a funny sight having a fancy blue tiny guppy chasing an axie around.

Hunting for feeder fish/shrimp is quite instinctive for axies and as soon as their mouths are big enough to gulp one, they should be merrily doing so.

 

[Stumpy]

Oh, that blue guppy is a little demon!
Just now I saw the black lotl swim up to chase him, and the guppy turned round and swam right at it! My poor axie didn't seem to know what to do, he just stopped swimming mid way and sank to the bottom of the tank looking a bit dazed and confused :3

 

[Samyueruchan]

Your axolotls remind me of mine! While he seems to love to put on his hunting face and stalk his prey, when I first added some feeder shrimp he got scared and hid every time one came near him! An earthworm with a little bit too much of a wiggle has freaked him out in the past too. I found that my axolotl was a bit unsure of the worms and shrimp at first, but instinct soon took over and he's slowly picking off the shrimp one by one as I write this.

 

[Stumpy]

Hehe, good to know that he'll hopefully get over this (and not alone!)
I was excited to note that I couldn't see any guppies this morning! But then soon realised that no, they were there. It was just murky.
I think I may have found the one in a hundred guppies that has the intent of a serial killer. and capabilities of an aquatic piece of confetti. Must be frustrating X3