BC floaters

[TallTree01]

Hello,
If you have spoken to me for any time in the last few months you will know that my axolotls float consistently. That is rather rare in the axolotl world as even after fridging them and isolating them their condition did not improve.
I have found out why they float:


You will notice that ' Does the Floater Phenotype go away? ' says that recovery is most likely in deep turbulent waters. Now at the moment my axolotl tank is deep but not overly turbulent. As you may know axoltols do not like turbulent water.
Should I add a filter to the water to make more turbulence or would this stress them further?
Click here for a bigger article:
http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q783/TallTree01/Axolotls%20and%20tanks/image.jpg1_zpsntc4kszy.jpg

 

[TallTree01]

I've decided to put in a wavemaker to create more current as the article suggests that that is how best they recover. I'll probably try find one on the weekend.

 

[LSuzuki]

Out of curiousity, do yours float that same upside-down way?

 

[TallTree01]

Sometimes they float upside down and sometimes right side up. Sometimes they lean to the side lol.

 

[TallTree01]

I've dug up a filter and stuck it in. I'll take it out on the 20th. Let's pray their condition improves! :happy:

 

[TallTree01]

Day 4 of the treatment.
I've noted that both of the Axolotls slightly stopped floating with just a little tail float on seperate days. Today, my leucistic has stopped entirely. He is happily sitting in the bottom.
I am ecstatic to say the least. My golden one is still floating but considering the treatment is not even half way through I am still very hopeful and optimistic.
Also I've begun to develop a little theory as to why the water movement helps. The article at the top says that the floating is caused by the axolotls breathing in but not often breathing out. My theory is that the turbulent water surface gives them motivation to not float and over the course of the treatment they figure out that exhaling regularly results in them sinking. The water agitation makes them uncomfortable and want to not float

Just a theory of mine that makes more or less good sense.
I'll give you pictures of my new sunk axolotl. Hoepfully he'll stay that way.

 

[TallTree01]

As you can see he is quite unaided. Here is my setup:




The grey thing on the left is the filter that is providing about 1100 l/h of flow.

 

[Zookeeper]

I too have been plagued with persistent floaters (14 in total) and have finally cured the last 1 recently. I likewise stumbled across this study and decided to try a hang on the back type filter in which I suspended a large mesh basket partially underneath with some floating plastic plants. What I discovered was that the water current would push them down and they were able to grip onto the floating plants in order to stay submerged. By placing the basket on a angle only 1 corner was in direct line with the water flow thus allowing the axolotl's that stayed on the bottom to move away from the direct water flow. I was removing them during feed time and placing them in a container of still water and I noticed that after 30 min the floating would return however once put back under water pressure they sank. this was the pattern for a week and eventually they remained down all the time and are now all in still water. Total time of treatment has been 3 weeks. All of mine were floating upside down with massive air bubbles noted extending from front legs to back legs involving the entire abdomen. I gauged the success of treatment in observing a reduction in abdominal size and ability to turn over and maintain this position. Mine feed will during this process however did require hand feeding as unable to reach food when floating despite low water levels.

 

[TallTree01]

Thanks for the reply, good to hear someone had had success with this method.
So you had a basket under the filter in which the Axolotl was held so there was no escape from the flow except the bottom of it?

 

[bellyache]

is there a bigger images of the first post, it is impossible to read

 

[TallTree01]

Here is the link to where I got it:
POSTER - Respiratory Rates of BC-Floater Axolotls in Normoxic and Hypoxic Conditions | Edward Zalisko - Academia.edu

Unfortunately both are now floating again

 

[LSuzuki]

:sad: Keep trying. Best of luck.

 

[TallTree01]

It's about half way through treatment and there's no sign of improvement.
Here is my thoughts:
The reason that it only helped them for a while is because they ( the floaters ) thought initially that the only way they could escape the flow was to sink like I wanted.
However, after a while they realized there were ' dead spots ' in the tank where the current was weak at the surface so they went back to floating in those spots.
So if nothing happens by the 20th I will put my breeder net ( I'd do it now but it's in use in another tank, a fish had its flank ripped off and it's currently in rehab and is seperated from its school ) in the axolotl tank and put the floating axoltols one by one in the basket by the filter so there is now way out except down like zookeeper has done.

I will of course keep you all updated as progress and setbacks come my way. My leucistic which for a day or two stopped floating is easier to feed now as while he was down there he must have learned a trick or two.

 

[TallTree01]

I've taken out the filter, once the seperation net becomes available ( probs in about a week when the fish has healed ) I'll put it and an Axolotl directly in front of the outlet so they can't escape the flow without sinking to the bottom. I'll do this for about 10-14 days for each axolotl.

 

[TallTree01]

I seperated my gold one today and out him in front of the filter. It's positioned in such a way that flow is stronger in the top/ middle and there is less at the bottom. Hopefully he'll figure out that if he goes down he will be more comfortable?

 

[TallTree01]

Day one

 

[TallTree01]

I think I'm going to keep him in til the end of March or maybe a little while longer. Just to make sure he will stay down.
Today the white one has also came down so all three of my Axolotls are non floaters at the moment!!!

 

[TallTree01]

The white one started floating again shortly after, and the golden one is barely staying down.
I have failed. I'm gonna release the gold one soon as all I seem to be doing is annoying him. Very disappointed. I'm just gonna try to make their floating lives as comfortable as possible and hope they forgive me eventually for blasting them with a Filter.

 

[ezalisko]

To those speculating on how to have floaters recover, let me weigh in. I am Dr. Ed Zalisko, at Blackburn College. I worked with my students to describe this new, inherited trait. Thus, they are Blackburn College Floaters!
- As some of you note, you have had success getting your floaters to stop floating by:
1) having a downward flow of water and
2) havig substrate which allows axolotls to get a grip.

We have conducted unpublished/yet to be presented research in which we submerged BC-Floaters for 24 hours. Most lost the air in their lungs. But many returned to inflated lungs and a floating posture (listing, on their side, or inverted, belly up) within a day or so.

I am collaborating with other professors to try to determine why these BC-Floaters have trouble expelling air. Our research testing BC-Floaters in lower oxygen environments revealed increased inspiration rates but did not produce BC-Floaters with deflated lungs. This suggests that "holding their breath" is not voluntary.

The way we can consistently get BC-Floaters to lose most of the air in their lungs and return to normal, submerged body posture is the procedure noted above. We had a BC-Floater remain inverted for more than a year. Then we placed this animal in the conditions noted above and within a day the animal was submerged without hyperinflated lungs. But it did have a lot of wrinkly skin, the result of being stretched by the hyperinflated lung condition, and very long gills, the result of an inverted suspension and increased reliance upon gills for gas exchange.

By the way, a strong downward flow of water can be stressful to our animals. We use clay pots broken in half and large, clean rocks to change water flow patterns within the tank. We find our animals usually locate in the parts of the tank with the lowest turbulence. Yet animals that once floated remain down in these conditions.

We typically use the Marineland/Penguin power filters of the 100 or 150 size. These have a single biowheel. A double biowheel filter on tanks under 50 gallons generates too much turbulence.

All my best to each of you, caring responsibly for these important and wonderful critters!

EZ

 

[Grandmaah]

I couldn't help myself from writing, maybe my case has nothing to do with this but it was still a floating condition I never got an answere to, and I haven't kept myself updated in a while. so this was really interesting to read.

I have 300L, deep water tank that houses two axies. Some time ago they had a period of maybe 8 months or so when they where constantly floating.

No one seemed to recognize the problem, and I was really heartbroken about this and not knowing what to do, at the same time I was afraid to interfere to mutch and cause them more stress. so I just bought lots of plastic plants and attached them at the surface of the water and more places to crawl in under at the bottom of the tank so that they at least could have many places to stay under and rest (which seemed to calm them down) Also someone had a theory about giving them a fatty diet, so I only fed them shrimps for a while. And then I just watched them and fed them while being worried, for a long time.

As I said after about 8 months, As a start, they now and then had a day or two without floating, and with time they've just stopped floating all together and have now been float-free for 1,5 - 2 years. Eating a variety of foods again, staying at the surface during nights and at the bottom of the tank during days, they can now choose to float occasionally.

So that's my story relevant or not, and I still have no clue what caused it or made it better. My axies has been healthy otherwise(to my knowledge) so this is an area I relate to most. I can really emphasize with not knowing how to handle this, and I'm glad that there seems to be more knowledge about some floating condition at least. And people sharing their experinces.