Illness/Sickness: Axolotl gone pale, gills laying back, floating??

[ectini]

Hi all,

Sorry I haven't done a proper introduction yet, but I'm pretty worried about my little guy so I thought I'd post here first

I'm a first-time axolotl owner, I got "Kiwi" 17 weeks ago (not sure how old he was but he was about 2in long, and right now he is about 4.5in long). He has been great up until this past week. I noticed him starting not to eat as readily as he used to, and yesterday I tried hand-feeding him with chopsticks and he only ate one pellet (sinking fish food pellet) but when I tried to give him more, he would chew it a bit then spit it out.

He's gone noticeably pale in the gills, they are usually a nice pink/red and very frilly, but they're much paler now and seem to have shrunk. He also has them laid back towards his head for most of the day, when usually they're more upright and forward. He's been doing LOTS of floating and burping up air bubbles, and occasional frenzied swimming, which I haven't seen him do too much prior to this week. He also made some odd floating poops earlier this week, and now, no poops (I guess since he isn't eating), and is looking rather skinny/shrunken in around his back legs.

He has aquarium decorations that sometimes grow brown algae. The tank is not in direct sunlight. He has glass aquarium rocks covering the bottom (much bigger than his head, so he cannot swallow them). No filter, no bubbler. I use API Stress Coat but ran out 2 weeks ago and was using Tetra Aqua Safe instead. His health problems seemed to start after I used the Tetra a few times, but I'm not sure if that's just coincidental or the cause of it??

I am also wondering if he could have ammonia poisoning based on his symptoms?? I could only get a hold of some water testing strips, which didn't test for ammonia...
Water parameters today:
- General Hardness: 0 or 30 (hard to tell between the colors on this one)
- Carbonate Hardness: 40
- pH: 6.5 or 7
- Nitrite: 0.5
- Nitrate: 0

I normally clean the tank 2x a week and do a 25-50% water change depending how the water looks. But since I had noticed him looking "ill" this past week, I have been doing 25% water change every day (so I'm hoping it's not ammonia poisoning).

Sorry for the novel. I'm just not sure if I'm over-worrying, or if there's anything I should be doing He just looks "not himself" lately and not eating, so it's making me concerned Any advice is much appreciated!!

Photos (sorry they are sideways)
1 - "Normal" Kiwi
2 - Kiwi today with paler gills laid back
3 - Kiwi today in his tank

 

[PatchworkClocks]

I've seen a few people have this kind of issue before, but I haven't really come across anyone pinpointing the exact cause. I'll dig around some more and see if I can come up with anything. For the time being, keep him in a separate quarantine tank of cold water, change it all daily and maybe do a tea bath for a while. DON'T fridge him right now, just keep him in cool, clean water with the tea baths.

 

[AshSeek]

when mine were even smaller than they were now, i had problems with one chewing food and spitting it out. I was feeding regular worms then and was cutting them up but with him i would have to cut them even smaller for a while for him to eat.

Sometimes their gills and body turn very pale (almost white) and most times they are just resting or need food. (after feeding they perk back up and have great color) their gills also turn foreword (from my experience).

Some axolotls don't like pellets, i would try something else... I started out with frozen bloodworms with mine and then advanced to cutting up reg.worms and night crawlers. so maybe try different foods.

could you get a picture of the floating??? he doesn't seem to be floating in any of those pictures.

A lot of times with my Axolotls, even after doing a water change or cleaning the tank, they like to swim to the top and gulp some air.

To me though, his color seems okay and gills are fine but keep and eye on him.

 

[ectini]

Thank you Rhiannon! It would be really helpful to hear about other people who have had similar problems. I will go about getting a quarantine tank and learning about doing tea baths.

 

[ectini]

Thanks for your advice, AshSeek! Unfortunately getting live/varied types of food here is difficult for me I am ordering salmon pellets from here but it'll take some time to get to me in Hawaii, probably. Where I live, there are only about 3 small family-run pet stores and the best one only has food for fish/turtles and the like, not specifically for axolotls. Also no live food, no bloodworms, etc. I only see freeze-dried -- is that okay? I also saw frozen blood worms at Petco, but that is a 2 hour drive from where I live... I really want to feed live food but am a bit hesitant to feed earthworms I dig up myself, or store-bought guppies; because of possible parasites?? Or is this risk negligible?

Next time I see him floating I'll get a pic. I noticed he has floated a bit before, but this week it has been much more consistent, and some periods of gulping for air every couple of minutes for a span of 10 min or so. He does perk up and get some color throughout the day, but still has gone back to being pale with laid-back gills.

 

[layna]

People seem to be picking up on the food, but no one has addressed water quality.

You really need a filter with axies, even if its just a sponge filter and air pump.
Secondly, your tank isnt cycled so only doing two weekly water changes isnt enough.
It will be very hard for you to cycle your tank and keep the water nice for your axies if you dont have any sort of filter, can i ask why you dont have one?
And without an air stone too, there wont be much oxygen getting into the water for your axie.

Also the test strips, although good in a pinch are not great for testing water quality. You can get a api liquid test kit off amazon/ebay for around £20 they are far more accurate and last literally months (ive had mine for 9 months) so in the long run its cheaper.

Freeze dried food isnt okay for axies as it expands in their tummies and can make them ill.
You could order a worm farm kit online and then you know know they are pesticide free and if you keep the conditions correct, you wont need to buy more.

My advice is to get some sort of filter as soon as possible and do 20% daily water changes until your tank has cycled.
When the water quality picks up, your axie should find its appetite again.

Please dont think im having a go at you, because im not, im just trying to help you out

 

[ectini]

Layna, from what I have read, a filter and flowing water can cause of stress in axolotls (I read this on axolotl.org)?? I only have a 5gal tank, and it is not filled to the top. Locally, I have not been able to find a small enough filter (smallest I have found is for 10gal). Are there filters for such small tanks? Where could I get them? I do have an airstone laying around somewhere that I was using when I had a turtle, but I remember it making a lot of noise. Maybe I'll look for a new one.

And how do I know if my tank is cycled? I have had it for 17 weeks. Are the water parameters I listed above, not within range?

I will continue doing 20% water changes daily and hope he improves. Will also look into getting better water testing kits so I can check the parameters with more accuracy.

 

[ectini]

The hard part is here in Hawaii (my island at least) there aren't abundant pet stores or many different options for supplies/food -- no live food, no filter selection, no water test kit selection So pretty much my only option is ordering supplies/food from online, but it usually takes a long time to get here and in the meantime I'm worried he'll get worse...

We do have Petco but I can't go there often since it's 2hrs drive away from me. Sucks because I could probably get most of what I need from there but I'll have to plan the trip for a weekend when I don't work. Thanks for the tip on the worm farm kit. I'll look into it!

 

[layna]

When are you planning on upgrading your tank because a 5 gallon will not last very long with an axolotl. (add more water to the tank until its almost full, but you need a lid)
A small sponge filter will do for the meantime, you simply put the air stone tube, down the middle of the sponge filter and that will provide aeration and a filter, although you will still need to collect the poop when you see it.
Axolotls dont like strong flows, but a sponge filter wont cause any bother (and when you get a bigger tank you can get the right size filter, i just use an internal corner filter and i have no flow problems).
As for The cycle, if you have anything other than;
ammonia - 0ppm
nitrITE - 0ppm
nitrATE - less than 40ppm
then your tank isnt cycled, as you have reading of nitrITE and a reading of 0 for nitrATE, it means your tank isnt cycled and this will be partly down to the fact you have no filter in there.
It takes a good few weeks to cycle a tank(took me 9 weeks), my best advice is to buy your axies 'home for life' (if you just want the one axie then you need a 2 foot tank, with a lid) and start cycling that now using this http://www.aquariumadvice.com/the-almost-complete-guide-and-faq-to-fishless-cycling/
Leave your axie in his 5gal but buy him a sponge filter, until his new tank is fully cycled, then move him into his lovely new cycled big tank.

Just as a side note i would keep an eye on those stones you have in there because hes getting to the size now where he CAN eat them, and he will probably try to. (google axolotl yawning, you will see their mouths can get pretty big)

 

[ectini]

Thanks for all your help, Layna. I have a used 10gal that I was going to switch him to; need to clean and then will start cycling properly this time. I can't look into getting a bigger tank for now, so hopefully the 10gal will be okay for awhile. I will keep him in the 5gal for now (it has a lid), will put more water and add the airstone/sponge. I will probably take out the stones too when I move him to the 10gal, they look nice but yes if he gets bigger I wouldn't want him to eat them, and the food particles get trapped in there so I have to clean it more often.

The good news is he ate 4 pellets yesterday and has been swimming a bit more "normally"
But he is still very pale with laid-back gills. Makes me sad, reminds me of how dogs put their ears back when they're scared/unwell Hopefullly his new salmons pellets will get here soon and all these changes will get him better!

 

[xxianxx]

You havent mentioned the temp. The axolotl looks in good condition and doesnt appear to be ammonia burnt but constant water changes may blow your cycle. When the tank gets too hot floating may be a symptom.

 

[ectini]

xxianxx, I think you've hit the nail on the head!! Thank you for your input!! I just bought a cheap floating aquarium thermometer (so I don't know how accurate it is), but it is reading 78degrees Outside temp is currently 81degrees. I had no idea that might be the problem, as the tank/water has always felt "cool" to me and it is not in direct sunlight. He has also developed this whitish area at the base of his gills, which I read here is a sign of heat stress, as well as refusal of food. Augh I feel terrible for not checking this earlier!!

Question -- he had not exhibited any signs of heat stress for the past 17 weeks I had him, up until this week. And it has been hotter outside previously (84+degrees) than it has been this week, and he only developed these symptoms now. Is heat stress something that slowly builds up and appears all of a sudden like this?

So now -- what should I do??? I read about the ice bottle method and how fluctuating the temperatures can also kill. Help please!

EDIT -- I now have 2 fans blowing on the tank, one across the top (removed tank lid) and one blowing on the side. This does not seem to be affecting the temperature yet. I want to throw an ice cube in there or something but I'll wait for advice

Here are some pictures of Kiwi today:
1 - Floating behavior
2 - Top view, looking skinny
3 - Heat stress mucus patch? Gills still laid-back and paler than normal

 

[ectini]

He has perked up noticeably after the addition of the fans! The temp still reads the same but his gills are more forward and have a bit more color.

So now I'm assuming the main issue is really the heat. If anyone has advice on how else I can cool the tank town, it would be much appreciated!

 

[PatchworkClocks]

If you have the money for it, an investment in a tank chiller is really the best option. But they are usually pretty expensive, around $300+ for a decent one. Other than that, you could try the ice bottle method, which is what I use. Some people are a little if-y about it because it may cause too rapid a change, but it's never seemed to really effect my axolotl, and I'm usually able to keep the tank around 20C with this method. Some other people float tubs of ice in their tanks, and just replace the ice whenever it melts. I would suggest using dechlorinated water for the ice cubes, though.

 

[xxianxx]

Question -- he had not exhibited any signs of heat stress for the past 17 weeks I had him, up until this week. And it has been hotter outside previously (84+degrees) than it has been this week, and he only developed these symptoms now. Is heat stress something that slowly builds up and appears all of a sudden like this?

Heat doesnt kill an axolotl staright away, they can survive short periods at an elavated temp but at some point it will kill them. You really need to get the tank temp down asap to 20c (68f) or less. Read all the cooling threads in the link and get some ideas of what you can do.
Caudata.org Newt and Salamander Forum - Search Results
A chiller would solve all of your temp problems but they are expensive , or if you place the axolotl tank in an air conditioned room that would do the same thing.

 

[layna]

Good call xxianxx i didnt think of temp as its not a problem here for me Glad you fixed it.
But the tank isnt cycled, she has no filter and nitrite readings in there, we dont know what the ammonia is because there is no test for it, thats why i suggested a sponge filter and 30% daily water changes

 

[xxianxx]

Good call xxianxx i didnt think of temp as its not a problem here for me Glad you fixed it.

Most axolotl problems on this site are caused by too high a temp or poor water quality. They are the first things to check in any new sick axolotl thread.

 

[ectini]

Thank you all for the help!!! Outside temp today is 73 so the water temps is 70. He's much more active and eating voraciously His color comes and goes though but his gills look way better than earlier this week.

I will try the ice bottle method and see how he handles it, and search for some other ideas. Tomorrow I'm going to get an airstone/sponge and start preparing my 10gal tank for cycling and try to see if anywhere else here has better water testing kits.

I can't afford a chiller right now but it's nearing the cold months here (gets around 60-64F) so hopefully the temp will be better soon and he'll be okay for awhile while I figure out some kind of homemade cooling method like the person in this thread did.

Thank you again!!

 

[oceanblue]

I agree with xxianxx and others that getting the temperature down is a key to health but the symptoms that worried you somehow seem the wrong way round. Red forward curled gills mean stress, excitement or activity, paler laid back ones mean relaxed quiet calm.

If you are using ice bottles adding lagging around the tank (Polystyrene/styrofoam) will slow the leakage of heat from the surroundings and may increase the time between changes needed.

 

[ectini]

I took Layna's advice and have added a small filter to his tank. Removed most of the rocks so the tank bottom is bare and rearranged the decorations. Did 50% water change and added stress coat. Water test strip results were the same as posted previously. Temp is 74F (will start trying ice bottles tomorrow, thanks oceanblue for the tip!). Only trouble is he was fine at first, got some good color back and was just chilling out on the bottom... but now he is freaking out! He made a whole lot of poop and I siphoned it out, but accidentally touched his tail which made him start swimming super frantically, it's been going on several hours... Is this because he's getting used to the changes??