Any advice/ideas? High nitrates

[Alkylhalide]

First off id like to say that I want this to be somewhat of a debate. I would like to try to get a compilation of answers and theories and put them together. I have my own theory of what is going on but not quite sure why

So first of all, I have 3juveniles and 2 8.5" axolotls in a 25gallon tank. Yes i know it is to many but its my temp tank until the end of the month when i can hopefully set up my permanent tank(buying it this week but it wont be able to be set up till we make room)

I have a sponge filter rates for 35gallons and a hob filter 20/40 and no carbon inserts, i replaced it with bio mass and more sponge.

I dont want to debate on why there is to many axies in the tank. I have no once noticed that they cant get their personal space if they want, i have plenty of climbing areas and hides to give them more "floor" space.

Ive had them all in there for about a month or so. I do 25% water changes every other day to keep up with the nitrate buildup(my filter does have the biological filtration sufficient enough to keep up with all their waste, its just it makes a lot of nitrate) and i siphoned the tank every other day(so probably about 5% wAter changes to get all the poop from the bottom)

So for my problem. I just did my 25% water change and then did my weekly water test. My results were

Anmonia - 1ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
NitrAte - 80ppm!

This is after the water change i had done!

Now the ammonia reading i have a theory. Two days ago i did do a major clean of the tank( i rinsed all the filter media, in tank water dont worry) and just quickly swirled all the ornaments in the tank water as well. I noticed that my filter was getting gunked up. So i figure this is just a temporary spike, i added prime to the tank instead of my normal dechlorinator to help and also did another water change already.

Also i lost some crushed coral somehow in that huge tank cleanup so it did actually lower my ph, which i will need to get more because it is 6.4..

I have a few plants in the tank but im limited because my little buggers like eating most of the plants i put in there, but i know plants will help with this problem.

My other idea was maybe i need to do bigger/more frequent water changes but i would like some opinions on what is to much because i dont want to crash my cycle.

Id like to state that yes the lotls are still in the tank, but i will be doing another water change tomorow and testing again and if it isnt in safe levels they will be removed.

As of right now none of them are showing signs of stress. They are all themselves. They have lived through bigger spikes then this when i was just new and didnt quite know what i was doing. Like off the chart nitrite value for probably at least 3days with no signs of stress.

I am sure the ammonia will be gone by tomorow or at least at a safe level, if not by later tonight so im not to worried.

Its just omg! The nitrate! Ive never seen it so high! I figured since most people do 20% water changes weekly in a cycled tank with normal amount of axolotls in them that if i wanted to add more then i just needed to do bigger more frequent water changes... But maybe they need to be bigger and more frequent?


So give me your thoughts! All my axies are healthy and happy! You can tell by all the pictures i love posting on here or on my instagram. There is no adults in my tank so its not like there is 5 adults.

Unfurtunately due to the construction going on i need to leave them in the tank unless absolutly necessary, so please dont tell me to remove some. Everything has been fine for the past month until now.

My idea was 30% wAter changes daily. And adding more plants to the tank. And replacing my dechlorinator with prime for all water changes. That way i can eliminate some of the ammonia turning into nitrate.

Your thoughts? Please post below.

This is temporary again to mention. This was to keep all my axies together because i was having a hard time keeping the tubs cool and the tank at the same time. And i found a big tank for them that i will be picking up next weekend, though until construction os done i cant set it up( it will need to be moved and id rather just move a 25gallon instead and wait a bit longer l)
And since they are only working on things on weekends it will be a while(so inconvenient ughh!)

Other then the nitrate and ph(which i will be fixing asap) though i have no problems. The odd injury because their tails are like paper and if they start having a little freak out they end up cutting themselves, but heal quickly.

 

[Quentari]

My nitrate once went a bit above 80 and I lost an axie because of it, be careful! (some axolotl's are more sensitive than others) I did an 80% change twice a week to lower it. I wasn't too worried about crashing the cycle because nitrate eats nitrite and nitrite eats ammonia. I figured with nitrate that high I couldn't hurt it too bad (I did check the water parameters every day though)

It took two weeks to get everything safe then I added an extra filter (I had a submersible, now I have that plus a sponge).

The only thing I will mention about having an overstocked tank is the smaller ones might get picked on by the larger ones, some axies get more aggressive when they are cramped and some don't. Just have a divider handy just in case. I personally only ever see my axies on one side of the tank and I don't think they would care if the other half magically disappeared lol.

 

[layna]

Okay to keep the crushed coral (or whichever PH raiser your using) altogether, cut the foot off a stocking/skin coloured tights and put it in there, tie and knot in the end and voila, it even looks a little like a stone if you use crushed coral
I have elodea, lots of elodea alongside water soldiers and mini water lettuce and some Anubias thrown in there for good measure. However i often find that even with 50% water changes once a week, my nitrate climbs up to the red on the colour chart!
If anyone has any advice on keeping the nitrAtes down, id like to hear it please

 

[Tephra]

Nitrates should take weeks to build up that high...
Your cycle isn't strong enough. Aka your tank is too small to deal with the axolotls that are in there.

All I can advise for now is to do lots of water changes, perhaps even daily, and test your water every day.

Make sure you clean up every single mess they leave (poops, leftover food, etc)

I hope you're planning on moving them to a big tank someday, to save yourself the work in the future

But yes, water changes. It's the best thing you can do.
Keep treated (dechlorinated) water on standby, so you always have some ready just in case

 

[pondweed]

I'm going to lurk around in this thread in case I get some ideas on how to control my nitrate issues. Our tank water seems to have 40ppm naturally, so I'm wondering how water changes are even going to help.

 

[layna]

Well ive read up on reasons for high nitrates and can rule out most, i have lots of live plants, every couple of weeks i move the ornaments around and get up every bit of waste i can see( in between weekly 50% water changes), i only feed them earthworms and dont leave them in the tank, i clean up any poop as soon as i see it and i have three 7" lottles in a 20 gallon long which would be the equivalent of 2 full grown adults in there from what i can work out.
I bought a filter that does up to more litres than my tank holds and i have an air stone in there, its been confusing me for a while this problem and im glad to hear im not the only one haha

 

[Tephra]

It shouldn't have that much naturally; so there is something wrong.
Either your tank is too small or overcrowded, you don't clean up enough after feeding or pooping time, or you don't do enough water changes.

If you still do all of the above, then I would suggest buying something to help with the cycle. A lot of pet shops sell filter bacteria. Just pour the stuff into your filter, it should help make the cycle stronger and it's not expensive

It will only help for a short while if your tank is overcrowded though.

What also helps clear up the water is plants to filter the water. Underwater plants and floating plants (you can get them at the pond section of pet stores) will both help.

And always remember, baby and juvenile axies leave a bigger mess than adults do. Faster metabolism for growing and such.

Oh, and one more thing. Whatever decorations you have, whatever substrate you have, don't scrub it. If there's some dirt on it just siphon it away. Scrubbing removes the beneficial bacteria and can cause your cycle to malfunction and even crash.

The only thing you should scrub is the glass of your tank, to get the algae off so you can actually see your axolotls

 

[Alkylhalide]

Nitrates are at the end of the nitrogen cycld, i need a biological filter in order to even get a nitrate value, this adding more beneficial bacteria would be useless because the only way to get rid of nitrAtes are water changes/plants etc.


Thats what i figured but i wasnt sure about doing such big water changes! Ill be doing bigger ones from here on out! They shouldnt be in there much more then one more month. *crosses fingers*

Like i said i siphon the tank out everyday, and every other day i will do a 25% wAter change. So i think i will do a much larger water change daily.

I dont scrub my decorations, more just shake it around in my tank water from my water change to get any loose debris and stuff off if.

 

[pondweed]

It shouldn't have that much naturally; so there is something wrong.
Either your tank is too small or overcrowded, you don't clean up enough after feeding or pooping time, or you don't do enough water changes.

If you still do all of the above, then I would suggest buying something to help with the cycle. A lot of pet shops sell filter bacteria. Just pour the stuff into your filter, it should help make the cycle stronger and it's not expensive

It will only help for a short while if your tank is overcrowded though.

What also helps clear up the water is plants to filter the water. Underwater plants and floating plants (you can get them at the pond section of pet stores) will both help.

And always remember, baby and juvenile axies leave a bigger mess than adults do. Faster metabolism for growing and such.

Oh, and one more thing. Whatever decorations you have, whatever substrate you have, don't scrub it. If there's some dirt on it just siphon it away. Scrubbing removes the beneficial bacteria and can cause your cycle to malfunction and even crash.

The only thing you should scrub is the glass of your tank, to get the algae off so you can actually see your axolotls

I feel like I've confused things by adding my voice. If any of this is to me and not Alkylhalide, I haven't got any axolotls in my tank yet, and the 40ppm was from when I measured the at water before filling the tank. :c I tested it twice. And I shook the bottle vigorously for the required time and everything. I know you can mess up an entire bottle by not shaking it the first time. I can try and get hold of another nitrate test kit. I'll take some of our tap water along to the aquarist shop the next time I get to go too...

 

[Alkylhalide]

Water quality is confusing :s lol its like once i finally think i understand, it surprises me again lmao.

Anyways i did a 50% water change just now, and i had done two 25% last night. I am just waiting a little bit before testing and i will post the results after. If they are not in safe zones my lotls will be put in tubs which i would hate to do but if i have to i have to.

Does anybody know if black tea effects the test results in any way? Because i wAnt to add some black tea to the tank since i noticed one of my juvies has cut its tail again! Ive checked this tank over like a million times and i cant figure out how they keep slicing their tail lmao. I guess they are just as accident prone as I am. Ive never had fungus grow but i always add two cups of black tea to 25gallons of water and then remove it by 20% water changes daily after and it seems to help, whether its just a placebo effect in my mind or not ill take it. Lol

 

[Tephra]

Pondweed, it was directed at Alkylhalide. That case is much more urgent in my opinion, since those axolotls are currently living in that tank.

And Alkylhalide, the tea will just lower your pH. It will do nothing to your cycle. However, if you want a more permanent solution to your problem (axolotls seem to hurt themselves a lot bumping into stuff ), I would suggest driftwood. It leaks tannins into the water, and tannins is the part of the tea that is beneficial to an axolotl's (and also many kinds of fishies') slime coat and promotes healing of the skin.

Just have a quick read about it here.

Other than that... either keep doing large water changes or put them into tubs. In that case however, cover them with nets. Axolotls are known to jump out of tubs at times.

 

[Alkylhalide]

Oh i know they love jumping. I have a 10gallon rubbermaid container that my juvies use to live in and it was 7 1/2" high but i only had it filled a little over half way so that when they did jump they didnt jump out(plus i had a lid over it lightly.

Is there anything other then the axolotls that can be contributing to the nitrate value? Just curious.

 

[Alkylhalide]

So i just tested the water and good news.

Ammonia is .25ppm
Nitrate is 20ppm !


So I am guessing I just was not doing big enough water changes.

Tephra, do you have any advice on what i could do now? Just in case the water has done damage(there is no noticeable damage) to my lotls? Or should i just keep doing water changes/testing daily till i figured out a good routine?

 

[Tephra]

I would say, just keep doing water changes and test daily. If your axolotls start to display symptoms (they will usually go vein-like and shed skin and such), you should fridge them. But that's a problem to worry about only if it occurs. As long as they're active and healthy and have a good appetite, there's no need to worry.

 

[Alkylhalide]

Okay thank you. all 5 seem healthy and happy and eating like usual pigs.
Im normally one for giving advice on here instead of taking the advice but these creatures always surprise me with something new, and im a science nerd and if something happens that i dont understand i need to understand! To learn from it. But I guess in that sense that has taught me a lot and it helps me help others. But yeah.. I had never had nitrate over 40 before so i wAs really surprised expecially since i do so many water changes.
But i guess it was as simple as that.
Ive dealt with everything, low ph, high ammonia, off the charts nitrite. All in which i took the axies out, i know nitrate is the least bad one out of them all but i also new to high is dangerous.

I so cant wait for my new tank. I hope i am able to get it set up soon

 

[pondweed]

Pondweed, it was directed at Alkylhalide. That case is much more urgent in my opinion, since those axolotls are currently living in that tank.

And Alkylhalide, the tea will just lower your pH. It will do nothing to your cycle. However, if you want a more permanent solution to your problem (axolotls seem to hurt themselves a lot bumping into stuff ), I would suggest driftwood. It leaks tannins into the water, and tannins is the part of the tea that is beneficial to an axolotl's (and also many kinds of fishies') slime coat and promotes healing of the skin.

Just have a quick read about it here.

Other than that... either keep doing large water changes or put them into tubs. In that case however, cover them with nets. Axolotls are known to jump out of tubs at times.

Thank you, yes, and it definitely is (was now?) It was that you'd replied, then I'd said something, then you added more, and Alkylhalide hadn't said anything. So I got very muddled, ah!

I hope you're able to get your second tank under way soon Alkyhalide!

 

[tigmades]

I have one of THE greatest solution ever. And it's very easy to do. Back when I was trying to get my 60"x15" footprint tank cycled (with 15 juvie axies in) I noticed my nitrates going to 80+ every DAY OR TWO (ammonia 0, nitrite 0-0.25)! After what I did..... my nitrates stay at about 10-20 even after a week and a half.

Here's what you do:
1) go out and buy a pathos plant, and a basket meant for putting aquatic plants in (I found mine at walmart for $8 and $3 respectively)
2) remove pathos from pot and thoroughly rinse off any debri/soil on roots.
3) place pathos into basket with roots all the way at bottom, then add gravel on top to keep the roots rooted.
4) find a way to put the pathos plant inside the tank (See pic for ideas).
5) sit back and let the pathos plant do alllllll the work and THEN some!

Pathos plants are FANTASTIC nitrate suckers, amongst other unwanted nutrients! They're the greatest thing since sliced bread for helping keep tank water parameters clean! Just be aware they are poisonous so keep kitties and puppies away from it!


Edit: This by no means means you can skip weekly water changes. I still do mine. It's just a way to prevent rediculously high nitrates. My axies are happy, healthy, and the plant thing has worked wonders. Great for fish tanks, too. In pick at very back, there is also some lucky bamboo, which also helps with water parameters, but pathos is all you need.

 

[Tephra]

I have one of THE greatest solution ever. And it's very easy to do. Back when I was trying to get my 60"x15" footprint tank cycled (with 15 juvie axies in) I noticed my nitrates going to 80+ every DAY OR TWO (ammonia 0, nitrite 0-0.25)! After what I did..... my nitrates stay at about 10-20 even after a week and a half.

Here's what you do:
1) go out and buy a pathos plant, and a basket meant for putting aquatic plants in (I found mine at walmart for $8 and $3 respectively)
2) remove pathos from pot and thoroughly rinse off any debri/soil on roots.
3) place pathos into basket with roots all the way at bottom, then add gravel on top to keep the roots rooted.
4) find a way to put the pathos plant inside the tank (See pic for ideas).
5) sit back and let the pathos plant do alllllll the work and THEN some!

Pathos plants are FANTASTIC nitrate suckers, amongst other unwanted nutrients! They're the greatest thing since sliced bread for helping keep tank water parameters clean! Just be aware they are poisonous so keep kitties and puppies away from it!


Edit: This by no means means you can skip weekly water changes. I still do mine. It's just a way to prevent rediculously high nitrates. My axies are happy, healthy, and the plant thing has worked wonders. Great for fish tanks, too. In pick at very back, there is also some lucky bamboo, which also helps with water parameters, but pathos is all you need.

Ooooh, I like that idea. I think I might try it out some time
Lovely tip

 

[Alkylhalide]

So you just let it sit on top of the tank? I may try that as well! Seems cool!

 

[Alkylhalide]

Arent they also great for air quality? I love this idea and i think im going to try it! I just need to figure out where to buy one

And since its not in the water my axies wont eat it! The only plants my lotls dont eat that ive tried so far is anubias and java fern and moss balls. Like i had a good cup+ of duckweed thinking "that will take over pretty quick" nope in about a month it had all disapeared, but when i fridged them due to hot temps and they pooped more then ever i noticed ample amounts of duckweed. -.- and hornwort, one of my juveniles ate it all.. Within afew weeks