Another Death- What's wrong?

[IanF]

I regret to inform you all that I've had yet another Death. My only recently aquired Northwestern Salamander passed away today. I'm extremely frustrated and sadened by this. He was absolutely great even when I checked on him in the morning and ate food the previous night.

Once again, I don't know why. His enclosure is fine, he had water to use, temperature's not to high, and he showed no signs of sickness. When I found him he was in his water dish, I thought this odd as he's usually burrowed, but when I check him he was dead. Under his head was swollen all the way to his shoulders, and when I opened the mouth it was filled with a very swollen tongue pushed up to the top of the mouth, and there was a thin film of mucous over his mouth like a bubble.
He was also shedding his skin, although I don't see any connection to the swelling.
The only reason I could see for his death is the swollen mouth which may have suffocated him. However he's not shown an signs of having any swelling.
I will upload pictures soon so you can have a better look.
Also, please do not judge me for this multitude of deaths, I feel I'm a competent keeper, but I'm starting to doubt my ability. I realize I've done something wrong, but to the best of my knowledge everything was as it should be and he was happy and healthy. It seems I was wrong though.


Ian

 

[IanF]

Here are pictures, Apologies as there are not many and they are not focused but I wasn't wanting to disrubt him to much.

As you can see his head is very swollen.

And you can see it extends to his shoulders.

Here's a very similar case I found. http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7/2017.html Mouth rot possibly?

 

[Steve Roman]

Ian, Could you post pictures of the water dish. It is troubling that he had been fine and then suddenly was found dead. I have seen salamanders drown when then could not get adhesion with their toes on the edge of the water dish. Were there help rocks or wood ramps in the water dish?
I once found several dozen pit fall trap dishes filled with hundreds of drowned salamanders on Clingmans Dome in the Smokey Mountains. An entomological researcher had set the traps for insects and left them. It then rained and even though the water was up to the top of the dishes and the dishes were even with the ground, the salamanders (Plethodon jordani and Desmognathus wrighti) could not get traction on the rim of the bowls (which were made of thin styrofoam by the way) and they all drowned.

BTW , I turned the researchers traps upside down and reported the incident to the National Park Service Naturalist. Leaving the traps un-monitored and not being aware of what could happen during a rainfall was poor research design and thoughtless. It led to an ecological disaster.

 

[IanF]

The water Dish was terracotta, so he could grip it as I'd seen him crawl out many a time. Also the water was no were near a level to drown him, but Thank you for the suggestion. I'm actually fairly certain now that it's this ' Mouth rot' the symptoms are the same, just it happened much quicker than descriped.

And that is abit of a disaster, I hope the Park sorted it out.

 

[Nathan050793]

Also, please do not judge me for this multitude of deaths, I feel I'm a competent keeper, but I'm starting to doubt my ability. I realize I've done something wrong, but to the best of my knowledge everything was as it should be and he was happy and healthy. It seems I was wrong though.

Don't let these deaths turn you off from keeping Caudates, Ian- it happens to all of us. Even now, after I feel I have become a knowledgeable and respectable Caudate keeper, I still lose animals. Sometimes it's just beyond your control- I think you did everything you could.

Sorry for your loss.

Nathan

 

[pete]

Don't fret. As with any endeavor, there is always some bumps in the road. It sounds like you were doing things right. It's tough to say what went wrong. You mentioned that it was "most recently acquired". Is it possible that there was a lingering disease or some stress from the new environment that took it's toll. Sometimes a sick animal may go to the water, so dying in the water may not be so much a cause as a result of something else. Perhaps someone else will have something more concrete to tell you for a C.O.D. for your salamander. I'd just suggest you clean it out well and try again.

Edit: I just read the mouth rot thread. Sounds like a good guess. Prevention/cause? I don't know. http://www.caudata.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-43712.html

 

[Jennewt]

Animals that die in the water often have the appearance of a swollen mouth. I'm not certain if this is a symptom of mouth rot, or possibly a post-mortem effect. It does look more swollen than what I've seen in drowning cases, so maybe it was an infection.

These things happen; all amphibians are touchy during the initial period after they are acquired. Sorry

 

[felizycontento]

Sorry for your lost Ian.

I had a similar problem with a pair of opacum. The first of them, I found hem dyed with the mouth swollen and full of soil. First I thought he has bitten a tylotriton who was living with them temporaly.

Then I take the second one alone to a new tank with new and sterilized forniture. He lived Ok for about 6 weeks. Then I found him on the same way.

So I suspect it was some desease they where carrying when a bought them, and it took I time to manifest.

If your animals have been recently purchased, and they are wild caught, You don,t have to asume, you have done something wrong.

 

[Azhael]

I´m sorry Ian. I´ve lost a few animals recently too and i know the feeling.
It does look like the typical "sudden" death. Sometimes there are things that scape us.....liver/kidney failure, inmunodepresion, etc....all are factors that pretty much scape our abilities and can affect our animals.
I know it feels like it has to be your fault because you are in charge of them...but sometimes there´s really nothing we can do.

 

[IanF]

Thanks for the support guys, it's appreciated. I'm not going to get PM done so I suppose I'll never know for sure, hopefully it won't happen again.