An ambitous tank setup idea.

[Jing kob]

Hi all, I'm new to axolotls, but have had aquariums and a blue spotted jefferson in the past.
I've recently acquired a 55 gallon tank and hope to have it set up and ready for a cupple axolotls in a month or two.
I'm planning a rather complicated setup and was interested in advice and input. the things I'm working on for this tank include
- converting a mini fridge into a chilled water reservoir for maintaining 60f
- building a hydroponic green wall as a large bio filter
- building an under tank multiple compartment filter in a 10 gallon tank
- using aquiferius karst in tank
- using limestone and tufa in a medium reactor on a separate tank to condition water for my water changes.
I'm basing my goal water chemistry off the water from banten springs here in austin, since we have three endemic aquatic salamander species living happily in there.
I really appreciate any imput you all may have! thanks in advance!

 

[Leash44]

Wow, I hope you can post pictures of your setup once you have all that, it would be interesting to see. The one thing that jumps out at me is that I read on a previous thread about which rocks are and are not safe for axolotls and limestone was on the unsafe list. Not sure why, but it was. I tried to link the thread for you but my phone is not cooperating with the paste feature. :/

 

[sde]

Limestone raises pH. Which is fine if you have soft water, but you can only use it in small quantities.

 

[Jing kob]

Limestone is absolutely dangerous as a substrate! you should not add large amounts of it to your tank. however, a small amount in a filter or media reactor can be used to adjust pH and water hardness. I'm planing to use deionized water, so it will need adjustment before being added to the tank for water changes. I'm trying to match the hard slightly high pH water that these guys live in Barton Springs Salamander | Watershed Protection | AustinTexas.gov - The Official Website of the City of Austin since my research indicates that they are quite close in living conditions.

I'd really love correction if I'm wrong about any of this.

 

[LSuzuki]

I am in awe of your vision and (if you are successful) your energy and ability. :happy:

I have some advice, but it depends on if you are an experienced aquarium person or not. You say you've had aquariums in the past, but for some people, that means they have cycled several aquariums from scratch and understand how pH affects ammonia toxicity etc. etc., and for others, it means they had aquariums in the house when they were kids. So, what is your level of aquarium hands-on experience? I don't want to waste time giving basic advice if it turns out you are more experienced than I. :happy:

 

[Jing kob]

I am in awe of your vision and (if you are successful) your energy and ability. :happy:

I have some advice, but it depends on if you are an experienced aquarium person or not. You say you've had aquariums in the past, but for some people, that means they have cycled several aquariums from scratch and understand how pH affects ammonia toxicity etc. etc., and for others, it means they had aquariums in the house when they were kids. So, what is your level of aquarium hands-on experience? I don't want to waste time giving basic advice if it turns out you are more experienced than I. :happy:

Aquariums have been pretty prolific in my life. my mother is a naturalist working for Texas Parks and Wildlife. Animal population and health surveys are a large part of her line of work. she would have between 5 and 20 isolated tanks going at any given time for her work. she taught me how important it is to set up and cycle the tanks correctly, and prevent contamination that could introduce or spread disease.
growing up, she let me help with the maintenance of her guests, and around ten i had my first aquarium. I have had a total of three aquariums and two vivariums. My favorite pet has been a wild blue spotted Jefferson salamander that hitched a ride to a local walmart with a shipment of live christmas trees. He was a full grown adult, and I had him for three years. I fear the texas summers are more than a little harsh for an amphibian from canada, and despite my efforts to keep him cool, it clearly stressed him every year. I'm not nearly as experienced as many of the folks on this forum, and I still have plenty to learn, especially about the needs of axolotls, but I am not too inexperienced either. I hope this answers your question. ^_^

 

[LSuzuki]

Well, you are certainly experienced, which makes your eventual success more likely. :happy:

I suspect you are enjoy this sort of project - researching and coming up with solutions and implementing them. If you will not get a good deal of enjoyment out of making this set-up work, then I suggest scaling back drastically, since complicated setups are, well, complicated, and more likely to have setbacks.

Now, is your axolotl the reason for the set-up, or an excuse to do the set-up? I.e., do you expect more enjoyment from the axolotl or more from doing the project?

If the axolotl is the reason, not the excuse, you may want to consider a more basic setup while you experiment with the more elaborate details. For example, you could use Holtrefeter's Solution to get your pH and hardness right, an ordinary filter, and a fan over the tank to cool it. This set-up is sufficient for axolotls. (Axolotls in the trade are the descendants of many generations of axolotls kept in all sorts of water conditions, and are probably much more tolerant of living conditions than their wild ancestors were.)

However, you have been doing your research on water chemistry and best environment, etc, and you have really cool ideas, so I'm hoping that you proceed with the project (in one form or another) and let us know how it all turns out. Post pictures!:happy:

 

[Jing kob]

That is something I had not considered. I've been looking at minimizing stress based on the conditions of there wild relatives wich, both here and in mexaco, reside in spring fed waters with higher levels of dissolved calcite and aragonite for metabolisable calcium. After so many generations in captivity, they may be better with vitamin enhanced foods. I'll give this some more thought.

However, with air temperatures of 105+ a fan chiller really won't work here... That's why my blue spotted jefferson had such a hard time in summers. it was just not possible to keep him cool enough on really hot days.

As for what I'll enjoy most, probably watching them hunt and play and generally live happily :3 But I've always been overly meticulous and a little over protective, and enjoy being as such. Saying an axolotl is an excuse to do a set-up is kinda like saying a baby is an excuse to build a nursery

 

[LSuzuki]

It is wonderful that you are willing to go the extra mile to try to provide the best environment you can for your axolotl.

Axolotls are still considered to need more calcium in the water than most fish, but many owners just use tap without adding anything (and many water supplies have enough calcium). Holtrefeter's Solution is supposed to add calcium, etc, to the water. I don't know if it has all of the minerals needed if you are starting with DI water.

I am interested if it is possible to get an appropriate mineral makeup with your approach. Unfortunately, I don't know enough chemistry to know if your approach is low risk (with respect to getting sufficient minerals). Do you have access to test equipment that you can use to confirm that it worked?

What inspired your desire to use a hydroponic green wall as a bio filter? Have you seen then used elsewhere? How much maintenance would it require and what benefits would it give?

 

[Jing kob]

It is wonderful that you are willing to go the extra mile to try to provide the best environment you can for your axolotl.

Axolotls are still considered to need more calcium in the water than most fish, but many owners just use tap without adding anything (and many water supplies have enough calcium). Holtrefeter's Solution is supposed to add calcium, etc, to the water. I don't know if it has all of the minerals needed if you are starting with DI water.

I am interested if it is possible to get an appropriate mineral makeup with your approach. Unfortunately, I don't know enough chemistry to know if your approach is low risk (with respect to getting sufficient minerals). Do you have access to test equipment that you can use to confirm that it worked?

What inspired your desire to use a hydroponic green wall as a bio filter? Have you seen then used elsewhere? How much maintenance would it require and what benefits would it give?

I do have access to water testing equipment to give a lot more information than the average aquarium kit. It's for environmental water chemistry surveys. I'm not entirely certain this will give everything the water needs either, I will report my results. Also, if you would like a more complete test of your water, I think you can still take a sample to home depot to be sent off for analysis.

As for the green wall, yes, I've seen this done before with various types of fish. All plants absorb phosphates and nitrogen compounds from the soil and water, some plant root systems even create anaerobic spaces necessary to the plant that house denitrifying microbes that aid the plant in absorbing nutrients. In the ones I've seen, the fish are there to feed the plants, but I intend to do the reverse, picking plants that help water quality most rather than producing food.
This study may be an interesting read if you'd like to know more about the plants I'm looking at. http://www.livingmachines.com/Servi...arch-Publications/Behrends_Plants-Denite.aspx
Maintenance is easy enough. Trim back the plants as needed, and promptly remove any dead vegetation.

And to anyone reading this that might think this is a way out of water changes, you can never eliminate water changes. They are essential to preserve good water chemistry. But reducing nitrates will improve the health of your tank! It'll mean less stress on the animals and less nasty things like fungus moving in for all that fertilizer.

 

[Elise]

Limestone is absolutely dangerous as a substrate! you should not add large amounts of it to your tank. however, a small amount in a filter or media reactor can be used to adjust pH and water hardness. I'm planing to use deionized water, so it will need adjustment before being added to the tank for water changes. I'm trying to match the hard slightly high pH water that these guys live in Barton Springs Salamander | Watershed Protection | AustinTexas.gov - The Official Website of the City of Austin since my research indicates that they are quite close in living conditions.

I'd really love correction if I'm wrong about any of this.

Are you trying to re-mineralized your deionized water with limestone?
It was my understanding that the solubility of limestone in pure water was very low. I believe that co2 can be used to acidify the desalinized water which allows for the dissolution of limestone. However, doing this from home would seem more challenging and imprecise than something like a Holtfreter's solution.

 

[Jing kob]

I had wanted to give it a try using a type of limestone called tufa, since tufa is more easily dissolved, and the pH of the deionized water is 5.5. But you may be right, it may be better in the long run to mix a solution.

 

[Jing kob]

Here's the more relevant numbers for the water chemistry of barten springs. What do you all think? of course, if I'm making a solution, a few of these would be left out.
Ca 85 mg/L
Na 20 mg/L
F 0.15 mg/L
Mg 20 mg/L
Cl 15 mg/L
Br 0.25 mg/L
Sr 2 mg/L
SO4 40 mg/L
B 0.06 mg/L
HCO3 350 mg/L

 

[LSuzuki]

I had a thought if you wanted to remineralize the water with limestone. You can make CO2 to acidify the water with a yeast and sugar solution (with some baking soda if the water is soft) and inject it into the water either by Bernoulliing it into a water pump or via something like this https://usa.hagen.com/Aquatic/Watercare/Additives---Supplements/A7690

 

[Jing kob]

Well, it turns out that the side pannels on my tank are all tempered. :/ so, I'm putting a hold on the sump for now. putting together the green wall tomorrow.