Amquel Plus

P

pamela

Guest
Does anyone have info re: the use of a product called AMQUEL PLUS. I have used it with my fish, and although the product info. says that it is safe for all aquarium life, incl invertebrates, and living rocks, it does not state anything about amphibians. I could call the company (Kordon), but I would like to hear of any first hand knowledge from forum members. (I do know that when testing water using the Amquel products, you must use a salicylate kit, vs the nessler kit.) Thank you for any input you may be able to offer!
 
I think I posted this inquiry under the wrong topic.
Sorry moderators - didn't mean to overwork ya!
 
It's a good product, just watch for incompatibilities with your the test kit you use. Because it detoxifies ammonia and doesn't actually remove it, many test kits will give false-positive readings.
The stuff works well, but isn't a replacement for properly cycling your tank. I keep it on hand for emergencies only, just in case.

You could also look into BioSpira if you're having ammonia troubles. Unlike "Cycle" (sorry, can't remember who makes either of these), BioSpira actually works, though it is a lot harder to find!
 
Should have read your original post more slowly, and I would have seen that you already knew about the test kits!
sick.gif
 
Thank you Dustin, and Leah!

I have a young friend who is learning about keeping axies, so cycling the tank is included w/his learning. I tested the water for him, there was a reading of nearly .25 of ammonia. I told him to do a partial water change, and monitor daily. I was curious about using the AMQUEL PLUS to "detoxify" the ammonia so there would not be any such stress to the animals. It has not been added yet, as I was not sure if it could be used with amphibians. (Next step - the nitrogen cycle!, poor kid is like "what!".

I have just started to use the product by Seachem, STABILITY, to help start-up the bio-load. Seems to do the job. I will also look into the one that you use.

Many thanks!
 
I kept coral reef tanks for about 8 yrs. and when I had the occasion to need a dechlorinator, I (and everybody I knew) used Amquel. Reputable mail order places often shipped livestock in water treated with Amquel. If it's save for coral reef invertebrates, I would say it would have to be safe for amphibians.

That being said, no healthy, properly filtered tank should register any ammonia, except of course during the early stages of cycling. Other than for initial dechlorination, you wouldn't really want to add Amquel to the tank to remove ammonia, during cycling. You want the ammonia to be removed by bacteria, not by chemicals. This is very important because the bacteria that feed on ammonia, gives off nitrite, which is another pretty toxic substance. The bacteria that feed on nitrite, give off nitrate, which is much less toxic and easy to keep in check through water changes. If you keep removing ammonia, the tank will never cycle. Products like Cycle add these bacteria and often ammonia and nitrite to the water, supposedly speeding the cycling process. There is a lot of debate as to how effective these cycling products are.
 
Good Job Pam!

If you don't mind, I'll move this into the Newt and Salamander help section at the end of today (hope you see this in time!)

I use Amquel all the time. There is another product Amquel+ which removes "nitrates and nitrite" but it smells something horrid (sulfur compounds).
 
I have at least one comment but will add them in the correct section.

Ed
 
If there is no source of ammonia to continue the cycle the levels of bacteria will drop as they consume the available food sources and the tank will have to recyle. There needs to be an food source for the bacteria for this to work.

In addition, Amquel is fine and I have used it for a number of years for both amphibs and fish but it can also disrupt the cycle. If the ammonia levels are too high, increase the aeration of the water to 1) help outgas some of the ammonia and 2) help speed the consumption of the ammonia by the bacteria. If the nitrite levels are too high, increasing the salt content of the water can prevent nitrite poisioning until the cycle can catch up with the issue. I would suggest small water changes daily in addition to the salt to lower the concentration of the nitrite.

And finally, I am unaware of any over the counter bacterial products for speeding up the cycle process that work as the bacteria that are typically contained in these products are not the ones that actually cycle the tank. I know that I posted that info here at least once before and it should be in the archives.

Ed
 
There has been a lot of first hand experience with the use of Marinelands "Bio-Spira" on an aquarium site that I frequent. To date, this product has proven itself several times as an "instant" cycle starter. It is a little pricey, sometimes difficult to find, requires refrigeration, and has a limited shelf-life. I actually don't recommend it very often simply because it is too easy - it allows a new hobbyist to "cheat" without learning to properly use water chemistry tests or fostering an understanding of the nitrogen cycle as it pertains to our relatively small aquatic habitats. With all that being said however, it does work. Amquel and Amquel Plus do not stall the cycling process. It will significantly reduce the toxicity of the ammonia in the tank while still keeping it available as a food source for the nitrifying bacteria.
 
Hi Dustin,
You can probably get better results by taking a handful of soil, stirring it and then filtering out the larger particulates as all of the nitrogen cycle bacteria are common soil bacteria. Regardless of the success of people using the product I strongly doubt that it contains the correct bacteria (a lot of people have success using Cycle for example but it also does not contain the correct bacterial mixture) (If I remember correctly I think you want to look for Nitrospira). (If you want the references for which bacteria actually perform the nitrogen cycle, I have posted it in the archives).

Amquel reacts with the ammonia to bind it to a methane-sulphite molecule to form H2NCH2SO3. The company literature states that the ammonia is bound and not rereleased into the system indicating that it is an strong bond. Given the molecular structure, I am not sure I buy the claim that the bacteria can break it down. I would be very interested seeing the process by which the molecule is broken down.
They also indicate that this product can bind nitrate and "detoxify" nitrate. Nitrate is not toxic to freshwater animals until you get into extreme conditions. Usually the low pH that results from the nitrogen cycle will kill the animal before the nitrate levels can become high enough.

But I'm starting to rant.

Ed
 
Thanks Ed for your feedback. So far I have just had my little friend do partial water changes. I told him if ammonia, or nitrites, get to high to continue w/partial water changes. If it gets critical, to move his axies to another container until tank has safely cycled. So far things are good though. I brought him a test kit, and ph tester.

As far as AMQUEL +, I was thinking of just lowering the ammonia, not eliminating it. He lives a few mile away, and I cannot be there everyday. I was hoping that by using it, it might be safer than not. But, so far, no use it!

Thanks again!
 
Dr. Tim Hovanec is credited for debunking the Nitrosomonas/Nitrobacter and identifying a species of Nitrospira as the nitrite-oxidizing bacteria in aquaria. He led the Marineland team that developed the Bio-Spira product. This product is used by the New York Aquarium, Tulsa Zoo and Living Museum, Columbus Zoo and Aquarium, etc... Any of us who have been involved in husbandry practices that involve the nitrogen cycle have seen countless products that make fantastic claims, but subsequently failed to deliver results as promised. In the last couple of years, this product has proven itself time and again. I understand your skepticism and respect your knowledge, I’ve learned (and continue to learn) quite a bit about newt husbandry from your posts. I hope this does not come across as confrontational in any way, I mean no disrespect. However, I stand by my endorsement of Bio-Spira.
As far as the Amquel Plus "stalling" the initialization of the nitrogen cycle, I'll have to do some thinking as far as biological processes go. I'm pretty sure the hydrogen/oxygen bond that binds the N3 to the Amquel is actually a relatively weak one, but that's just off the top of my head. There is quite a bit of anecdotal evidence to support Kordons claim on various aquarium boards, but I an unaware of any "hard" evidence.

(Message edited by DWillett on January 28, 2005)
 
I don't take it as confrontational but I worked in the pet industry for over ten years both full and part time and have as a result developed a healthy bit of skepticism if I can't see the process written out ahead of time.

If I remember my orgo correctly, it does not look to be a hydrogen-oxygen bond as this would result in an organic salt. This would by definiton be prevented from binding and not releasing the ammonia into the system as all salts are at least partially soluable. In addition if this was the case I would expect the N group to have remained bonded to three hydrogens. This looks like it has to be a nitrogen-carbon bond which is an energetic bond. The other reason I am skeptical that the same bacteria can break this bond is that the three dimensional molecule may prohibit the assimilation and binding via the enzymes that metabolize ammonia. I would not be surprised that there is some pseudomonad that can do the job (given that some can start metabolizing things like dioxin) but is it present in sufficient number in the aquaria?

According to my reference, Hovanec is the main author but should not get the sole credit see Hovanec, T. A.; Taylor, L.T.; Blakis, A.; Delore, E.F.; 1998; Nitro-spirea like bacteria associated with nitrite oxidation in freshwater aquaria. Appl Environ Microbiolo 64: 258-264 They ran PCR searches looking for the gene that metabolizes nitrite.
There was research by different researchers the same year demonstrating that soils contain Nitrospira. (And in general aerobic soils are very efficent in converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate)

Ed
 
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