Ack! Have I made a massive mistake?

Petersgirl

Petersgirl

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I currently have my axolotl in another (nursing) tank which is 100% water changed daily while my second tank (her permanent home) cycles.

Now, I borrowed some substrate (gravel) from my Dad's tank in order to kick-start the cycle - his tank is fully cycled. One of his Goldfish had a curved spine and has lost condition over the last few days. This morning we found him dead and nibbled on by the other fish.

Could this be fish TB and should I remove the gravel I'm using as a kickstart in case of infection to my axxie? Also, what about my Dad's fish? Will they be okay? I don't know whether my Dad's fish was just deformed or whether he really was infected.
 
I'd perhaps take the gravel out for now. Although didn't you keep the axie in with the fish at first? So I'm guessing the axie would have already been at risk as it's already shared the same water as the fish. How do the other fishies look?
 
Perfectly healthy, active, hungry little Goldfishes. Toothless was in with them for 3 days so she would have been at risk too.

I may have had a Corporal Jones Moment there. I rang the person who sold us the fish and apparently it had scoliosis when it was a fry. It used to get pushed up against the tank quite a lot, and it lived for a good 2 years before it came to us. Does that sound like plain old scoliosis to you? Apparently it's very common. He just deteriorated overnight and died suddenly, we're not sure why. He didn't have loss of condition or scales, he just didn't really grow much, or if he did, you didn't see it because of the curve in his spine. We also tested the water yesterday and it had 0 Ammonia.

Do you still think it's a worry? From what I've read TB kills the affected fish, and any in the tank with it that don't have strong immune systems, within about 6 months. This fish is over 2 years old. Toothless looks quite happy, just sat in her tank and digesting her 2 worms.
 
Did you test nitrites and nitrates as well?
 
I think we tested Nitrates but I don't remember the result. I know it was within the range suggested for that type of aquarium. Not nitrites though.

What are you thinking? Do you think it was the water quality that resulted in the fish's death?
 
I don't know about scoliosis or TB, but in general, goldfish are one of the most over bred fish out there. Deformities are very common. Most often times breeders sell their culls to pet shops and they are what most people buy. Fish TB is rare and the best way to find out would be to have tests run at a vet. If it is Fish TB, be very careful as it transmittable to humans and it's nasty to deal with.

Also if housed and cared for properly, goldies can live 10+ years. I have 2 common "feeders" that I've had for almost 15 years now and they are still growing. They are well over a foot long.

EDIT: Forgot to ask, how big the goldfish tank was and how many goldies are in there?
 
Thanks Abby, I have a feeling The Axolotl Whisperer is right and it may be something in the water. Unfortunately, my Dad has flushed the fish so I can't test the poor guy.

I'm getting pretty sure it's not Fish TB as it seems it's much rarer than I originally thought, also, the goldie had the curved spine from a young age. It's the fact he suddenly died overnight that I found a tad worrying, but it may just be coincidence that that particular fish succumbed. All the other fish look very healthy, active and plump, and eagerly come to the surface every time for food. Shiny clear eyes and scales, no tears in the fins or tails, and otherwise very active. Your thoughts?
 
The Goldfish tank is about 20 Gallons and has maybe 4 or 5 Fancies in it, with 6 tiny Black Widows and a few Striped Neons.
There are pictures on my Gallery. It's where Toothless lived before I 'rescued' her.
 
With the amount of fish in the tank, my guess would be water quality is the reason he passed away.
 
Now im scared! I have one of my axolotl babies who seem to have a deformed spine. Its tail bends upwards slightly and where the bend is the tail ripples. The baby is developing normally(its up there in one of my biggest) and has back limbs coming in nicely. Ive been wondering if its normal/if it will go away, if i should rehome it or keep it to make sure its okay but now im scared with you talking about fish with curved spine! Though its doubtful it could of been exposed to anything of the sorts they have been nowhere else but tubs with clean water their whole lives
 
I can understand your fears, Alkylhalide, but remember that scoliosis is extremely common in fish, and there's no solid evidence (yet) that my little guy had TB.

As for your baby, there may well be another explanation, such as Metabolic Bone Disease (Axolotl - malnutrition, nutrient deficiency, Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD)) or even just trauma. S/he may have caught her tail on something and kinked it, and s/he might recover naturally.

I don't mean to cast aspersions on your baby's health or imply that s/he isn't fed properly, some axxies are very well cared for and still seem to get these problems, like this: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...curled-tail-lower-back-difficulty-moving.html.

I hope that maybe one of these explanations helps and that your little baby is fine, if s/he's one of your biggest I doubt TB, as s/he'd probably be very ill, lose all their colour and have very little appetite. S/he's only little after all, and they find it harder to fight this off.

In case you are still worried, I'd suggest separating her/him if you can, using gloves when handling her/him or her/his water. But I don't think they have TB. It's usually only present in areas of poor sanitation or where infected fish have lived, and yours have lived in fresh water and tubs all their lives. It doesn't seem likely to me is all.
 
I'll quickly test my Dad's tank for nitrites. The other two readings were fine yesterday. This might answer this particular fishy's problem.
 
UPDATE: OK, now I am confused. Nitrates and ammonia were fine yesterday, and Nitrite is now 0 ppm. I have no idea what killed the little fish off.
 
No no dont worry about it! He eats well but that does make sense, it could be it is not able to absorb the proper nutrients. That makes a lot of sense to me. Id hate to have to euthanize another baby :( but we will see how he grows. And how his spine grows as he gets biggers. They are still young and im learning genetic abnormalities are still possible at this size. Im just hoping that when i home them i only home the healthiest ones. I may seperate him anyways just in case maybe its caused by another one, or if they may make it worst. Thank you
 
I don't blame you. No one likes to euthanise any animal, least of all a baby (by the way, your little ones in your avatar are adorable!)

Not a problem at all, I don't know much about these little guys as babies, I just came across the article while reading and wondered if it might be the cause of your axxies' spine curve. Then again, it may just be a kinked tail. Watching and waiting, while putting him/her in isolation is definetely your best bet. Oh, and I forgot to mention thoroughly washing your hands before handling your wee one, and after too, but you probably do all that anyway :)

Apparently Axxies can fix their bones, including their spine and tail, so perhaps it will fix in time. There was this article suggested on a board where one girl had a baby axxie with a kinked tail (please don't panic about the title, I know it's not the most encouraging, but it explains so many problems. I didn't know about fluid bloat before):
http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...15-baby-axolotl-dying-please-help-urgent.html (Board with someone else with the same problem)
Article about illness or oddities in Larvae: Caudata Culture Articles - Why Larvae Die
Alternatively, Tigrmades had the same problem, but she decided to keep hers: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-be...rvae-breeding/88856-kinked-axolotl-larva.html
Also, I read this guide about mutant genes and it didn't say anything about a kinked tail, but has lots of other fascinating stuff about genetics: http://www.ambystoma.org/education/guide-to-axolotl-husbandry

I haven't seen anything saying they're ill, only that, like all larvae, it's a wait and see kind of thing.

Sorry if I'm teaching Grandma to suck eggs, but these articles were a few things I found when I Googled about curved spines in axxies.
 
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I really hope the baby from Alkylhalide's post is still thriving :) As an update, Toothless looks absolutely fine and so do our other fish. No more illness or fish down to report.
One very mysterious death is all I can say. :confused:
 
Sorry i lost this thread and just came across it again! So many threads and post per day i forget lol.

Thank you for all those articles! I will read them in a minute.

Well they are almost 6weeks old and the little guy with the 90degree curve in his spine is sti doing great! The spine is not getting worst nor better. Its so strange its growing with him. No stunted growth like some people mentioned already he has back limbs now with toes and he is thriving just like all the rest. Maybe it will rectify itself over time. Who knows but i know im keeping him and if he lives a full life then thatd be great. Even if its short im going to make it his best :p

I am glad that everything seems to be going good with everything!


Edit: it doesnt look like just a kinked tail hehe :p
 

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No problem! It's why we're here :) I also do the same thing - I'm subscribed to nearly every thread I've ever posted on so I do lose track now and again :)
Hope the articles come in handy. Also very happy to hear your baby is doing well!
Hehe, if he turns out to be a boy...0.o LOL!
 
Hopefully it lives long enough to be sexed :)
I think i can start to see something in my juveniles but im not sure. But as far as guessing i think i may have a male/female -.-
 
That's a pretty safe guess, lol! :) I'm sure he'll be fine - my fingers and all of Toothless's toes are crossed for you! (That's 18 toes in total! :))
 
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