Smoky Mountains

Jay Redbond · May 16, 2012

Hello All

So I have just got back from the Smokys where I found a lot of Salamandersand other amphibians. I was lucky enough to meet up with John and I think wehad a really successful and eventful trip.

I am unsure of some of the species I have photographed but have identified afew, hopefully you guys can have a go at identifying some of the ones I amunsure on.

Here are a few photos

1) Seal Salamander Desmognathus monticola??
2) Three-lined Slamander Eurycea guttolineata
3) Eastern Red-spotted Newt eft Notophthalmus viridescens
4) Seal Salamander Desmognathus monticola??
5) Jordan's Salamander Plethodon jordani
6)??
7)??
8) Imitator Salamander red cheeked Desmognathus imitator

Jay Redbond · May 16, 2012

More Pictures

9) Shoval-nosed Salamander Desmognathus marmoratus?
10) Imitator Salamander Desmognathus imitator?
11) Sping Salamander Gyrinophilus porphyriticus
12)??
13)Two-lined Salamander Eurycea bislineata
14) Black-bellied Salamander Desmognathus quadramaculatus
15)Appalachian Woodland Salamander?
16)Santeetlah Dusky Salamander Desmognathus santeetlah?

Jay Redbond · May 16, 2012

More Pictures

17)??
18) Black-chinned Red Salamander Pseudotriton ruber
19) Northern Slimy Salamander Plethodon glutinosus
20) Spotted Salamander Larvae Ambystoma maculatum
21) Eastern Hellbender Cryptobranchus alleganiensis

Jay Redbond · May 16, 2012

4 and 5 are the wrong way round.

Jay Redbond said:
Hello All

So I have just got back from the Smokys where I found a lot of Salamandersand other amphibians. I was lucky enough to meet up with John and I think wehad a really successful and eventful trip.

I am unsure of some of the species I have photographed but have identified afew, hopefully you guys can have a go at identifying some of the ones I amunsure on.

Here are a few photos

1) Seal Salamander Desmognathus monticola??
2) Three-lined Slamander Eurycea guttolineata
3) Eastern Red-spotted Newt eft Notophthalmus viridescens
4) Seal Salamander Desmognathus monticola??
5) Jordan's Salamander Plethodon jordani
6)??
7)??
8) Imitator Salamander red cheeked Desmognathus imitator

Molch · May 16, 2012

totally awesome! If I ever found a real P. ruber in the wild, I'd instantly die of bliss...

Jay Redbond · May 16, 2012

It was amazing I found two while driving up and down the road outside my uncles gas station on the last night. I was very lucky as it rained that night.

Molch said:
totally awesome! If I ever found a real P. ruber in the wild, I'd instantly die of bliss...

will_j · May 16, 2012

Great photos, thanks for sharing! Herping in the Appalachians is on my wildlife bucketlist!

John · May 16, 2012

I've been computer-less since I got back until the day before yesterday, so I haven't gone through all of the photos yet, frankly. I am still having a hard time with some of the duskies but I will definitely clear things up for you asap. I believe you've got a Plethodon shermani for number 15, it's just from the red-less population. Your Eurycea bislineata is likely a Eurycea wilderae. I had a great time, particularly on the Sunday. Finding the Hellbender was fantastic! You were quite lucky too on some of the finds I think - getting a great rainy night to find ruber, and turning up a spring salamander considering how little time we spent looking on the Saturday.

It was a real pleasure, Jay - come back any time and we'll go "hunting"!

Azhael · May 16, 2012

Aaaaaargh......aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh.....the pain.......it´s unbearable...

Fantastic finds! Each and everyone of those makes me want to hate you, specially the Cryptobranchus, of course. It must have been a brilliant experience...
The Ioannes hiberniaensis was also a pretty nice find.

By the way, it took me 5 min to write this because i had to stop every few seconds to scream.

jaster · May 16, 2012

Looks like a great time! Sorry I never contacted you John, that was a busy weekend dealing with works among other issues... The weather was a bit dry and chilly here anyway. If you want, I could give some educated guesses on the dusky shots. The picture of D. marmoratus most likely isn't. Unless you found it in the stream a good bit, they can be very aquatic. The ones we have here are darker in color and have a recognizable blotching on the back. Most of the other questionables are desmogs. Some look more like D. orestes or D. fuscus, maybe even D. monticola. When they are young, good luck IDing the species. If that is a D. santeetlah, your location on that find is crucial. They are separated from D. fuscus by what mountain you were on and the elevation.

Jay Redbond · May 17, 2012

Those Duskies are hard work not just photographing them but working outwhich species they are, so that would be great. My photos are not great foridentifying the duskies I am sure yours are much clearer.

I will be back, just need to save up some money for a flight. This time Iwill leave the gf at home and we can do some serious hunting.

Kind Regards

Jay

John said:
I've been computer-less since I got back until the day before yesterday, so I haven't gone through all of the photos yet, frankly. I am still having a hard time with some of the duskies but I will definitely clear things up for you asap. I believe you've got a Plethodon shermani for number 15, it's just from the red-less population. Your Eurycea bislineata is likely a Eurycea wilderae. I had a great time, particularly on the Sunday. Finding the Hellbender was fantastic! You were quite lucky too on some of the finds I think - getting a great rainy night to find ruber, and turning up a spring salamander considering how little time we spent looking on the Saturday.

It was a real pleasure, Jay - come back any time and we'll go "hunting"!

John · May 19, 2012

We did see at least one santeetlah (nice red stripe) but I don't know if it's one of the photos Jay has posted. I need to get on my photos and post some. I agree on the marmoratus - that ain't one.

taherman · May 19, 2012

"red-less" shermani? Wouldn't that be metcalfi? There is some hybridization around GSMNP between jordani complex and glutinosus complex, but shermani isn't found in the park. Looks like the one in the photo has some minor spotting.

Jay Redbond · May 19, 2012

Yeah you are correct there is a small amount of red on each of the legs some of my photos show it better.

Kind regards
Jay

taherman said:
"red-less" shermani? Wouldn't that be metcalfi? There is some hybridization around GSMNP between jordani complex and glutinosus complex, but shermani isn't found in the park. Looks like the one in the photo has some minor spotting.

John · May 19, 2012

taherman said:
"red-less" shermani? Wouldn't that be metcalfi? There is some hybridization around GSMNP between jordani complex and glutinosus complex, but shermani isn't found in the park. Looks like the one in the photo has some minor spotting.

Wow Tim, I was beginning to think you had passed away. Glad to see that's not the case. Yes, redless shermani. Well known population in the Unicoi mountains that very rarely has any significant red, and that is where Jay was staying with his Uncle. Obviously not in the Smokys that day.

Jay Redbond · May 20, 2012

Yeah I found that on that Super Sunday when we found the Hellbender. Me and my Uncle went out at night and went back to the same location as the Hellbender and looked in the stream opposite the river. That little guy I saw climbing up the bank lucky spot.

Kind Regards
Jay

John said:
Wow Tim, I was beginning to think you had passed away. Glad to see that's not the case. Yes, redless shermani. Well known population in the Unicoi mountains that very rarely has any significant red, and that is where Jay was staying with his Uncle. Obviously not in the Smokys that day.

taherman · May 20, 2012

Still alive, but had a major house move, a few illnesses in the family, and been very busy being a father among other things

I'm still at the zoo though, and still plugging away at getting the Guatemala stuff off the ground.

Looks like you had a great trip!
Tim

Todd Pierson · Oct 29, 2012

Looks like fun! A few identifications suggestions:

1) Desmognathus ocoee
5) Desmognathus fuscus/santeetlah
6) Desmognathus ocoee
7) Desmognathus ocoee
9) Desmognathus fuscus/santeetlah
12) Young Desmognathus monticola
15) Plethodon sp.--I'll take John's word about "red-less" shermani
16) Desmognathus monticola
17) Young Desmognathus monticola

Steve B · Nov 16, 2012

There is a field guide from the Smoky Mountain Natural History Association that lists all the salamanders with pictures and characteristics in the Smokies if that would help. They are available online. It is a nice feild guide and lists what elevations each can be found at which helps narrow your search.
I'm not sure which would be a better find, the hellbender or Jordan's..Been looking for a hellbender for years. Did not know they were fully aquatic till recently. From what I underdstand, Jordan's are indiginous to the national park.
I go backpacking there frequently in the cooler months (Oct-April) if anyone is interested in such a thing. Will be leading some dayhike/carcamp trips when it warms up. I am an organizer for a hiking "meetup" if any of your are familiar with them. I am in the process of hiking all 900 miles of trail there. 125 to go!!!:happy:

Steve B · Nov 16, 2012

Imitator's have the eye-jaw line, red-cheeked's do not if that helps.

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