Does a temp in between fridging and 14 degrees hurt them??

Hi,

Ox is currently being fridged as the hot water was getting to him. He's been in there for just over 1 week. He hasn't eaten in that time or for a few days before that. I'd like to take him out now to feed him, but I've been advised to wait the 2 weeks on here. So I'm wondering if I can put him at a higher temp as I've written below or if it would not be a good idea...

I can't afford a chiller at the moment. So I've borrowed a bar fridge off a friend to set it at it's warmest. Hopefully in between 14 and 18 degrees and he can live in there with daily water changes until I can afford a chiller. I have a bucket of water with a thermometer in it at the moment. I'll see the temp when I get home from work. Will it be harmful to him in any way if the temp is in between the fridging them temp and the 14 degrees?

Thanks. :happy:

Hi Kylze,

Fridging temperature is recommended between 5 - 8 degree celsius. At this temperature the axolotl's physiology naturally directs their energy expenditure preferentially to healing and regeneration. However, at this temperature, the axolotl's metabolism will drop and many axies will lose their appetite. They cannot digest food as readily once the temperature dips below 10 degree celsius. However, due to the reduced metabolism, there is also reduced requirement for constant feeding and the axie will be fine even if it doesn't feed while in the fridge. At this temperature range, microbial pathogens cannot thrive.

A comfortable temperature for daily functioning is between 16 - 18 degree celsius. At this temperature, the axie's metabolism is high enough to feed frequently, remain physically active and still remain comfortable without fear of heat related stress. Healthy axies will thrive at this temperature range and shouldn't fall sick easily. However, microbial pathogens are still present, viable and can still proliferate. An immune suppressed axie can still fall ill.

Anything from 9- 15 degree celsius is still comfortable for the axie and actually might not suppress their appetite too much. They should still be able to feed. It definitely removes heat related stressors and allow the axie to relax. However, at this temperature, the axie's physiology is at mid point between assimilating energy and nutrients for recovery and physical activity. Recovery and healing is not as effective (although they still heal but at a slower rate). Pathogens are still generally able to thrive and proliferate at these temperatures so it is not effective in curbing their growth.

Cheers.

Ray, the reason axolotls are fridged has nothing to do with 'directing their physiology'. Axolotls are put in the fridge simply because they can withstand (and thrive) at the cooler temperatures, where as the offending organisms (bacterial/parasitic infections, fungus, etc.) cannot.

This allows the axolotl's immune system to get a leg up on the infection and the healing process to start. Axolotls will heal from injury even faster at warmer temperatures, providing they don't succumb to infection, as their metabolism is faster. Fridging does not work for all infections. Some types of fungus actually do better at the cooler temperatures (such as chytrid), and fridging will not help those axolotls.

Hi KYLZE,

Anything between 5-22°C is fine. At the cooler temps, it is quite common for your axolotl to eat less - with his metabolism slowed, he burns less energy and requires less fuel. Even at more normal temps an axolotl can go a few weeks without food. You don't need to warm him up to feed him. Just keep offering food. When he is hungry, he will eat. Don't forget to clean up any leftover dead food after about two hours, so the water stays clean.

As to a chiller: I would never be able to afford one here in Germany, they start out at around 800 euros. There is an article at Caudata Culture on cooling methods (click here) - my personal favorite is "Example 5: Ice water" because it looks effective and inexpensive.

Good luck to you,

-Eva

Hi Kaysie,

As a general rule, most microorganisms have reduced viability and cannot proliferate as easily under fridge temperature. Hence the purpose of the fridge. Its invention was to delay the process of food going bad.

However that said, all microorganisms have a range of environmental conditions optimal for survival and growth for eg. obligate vs facultative aerobes and anaerobes. Most saphrophytic microbes do best in moist warm tempratures and fail to thrive in dry cold conditions. I agree that some microbes can still survive and even do better in cold temperatures. They are specially adapted microbes much like thermophiles and acidophiles - microbes that can tolerate acidic conditions and high temperatures. Fridging obviously would have no hindering impact on microbes adapted to thrive in the cold.

Fungi in particular, compared to bacteria, viruses and parasites tend to have a wider tolerance range for temperature and some are actually dimorphic, existing as yeast in warmer temperatures.

Veterinary journals and literature have proven that fridging affects the physiology of axolotls. Sometime ago Bruce (herpvet) and i had a discussion on this issue as he is currently wrting a book/article on the subject. I have message him a list of scientific journals and articles documenting the beneficial effects of fridging axies. I believe there is also a short section in Wright and Whitaker. Bruce has PDF access to some of the journals so if you are keen you might like to ask him for them. I have only seen hardcopy in library archives.

Have a look at this thread. http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?p=181642#post181642

In a gist, cold temperature on axies has demonstrated the following among others:
1) Preferential shunting of blood to vital organs, increasing blood perfusion to these organs.
2) Reduction of stress cortisol hormone levels which is known to cause immunosuppression.
3) Improved renal function and fluid transport (shift in inter, intra and extra cellular fluid dynamics due to Na, Cl, and K pump function)
4) Increased cytoplasm and intracellular millieu stability - Less apoptosis of cells
5) Changes the haematological blood profile of leuckocytes - Boosts cell mediated immunity
6) Alters locomotor contractile function of muscles.

Hugs.

I think you are asking is 5-15C better than an Australian summer for an axie and the answer is yes.

Assuming you are not treating any particular illness this temperature range is fine. My axies have spent the last six months in a cellar at 10-12C, it only rises to 14C in summer. Juveniles grow slower and are a little slimmer than at higher temperatures but they somehow look healthy and are surprisingly active. The adults also look fine.

The axolotls eat a lot less at these low temperatures but unlike in the fridge at 5-7C they do eat. Take your time sorting out alternatives but provided you keep the water conditions good with daily changes there is no panic about cool temperatures. I have the suspicion that if you kept an axolotl at 10C it would live for 30 years, I just have not the patience (and possibly the life expectancy) to prove it!

Thanks everyone,

So I will put him in his own fridge. Only prob now is that the warmest the fridge will go is 7 degrees, which is only slightly warmer than the main fridge which he is in now. Any ideas on how to make the fridge warmer or the bucket of water warmer without altering the actual fridge as I have to give it back to my friend.

I thought about a towel around the bucket or something, I will try that tonight and check the temp.
I have a feeling that will make it colder though.

Ta. :happy:

Hi Kylze,

Perhaps prop the door of the fridge open a bit? The towel will eventually have the same temp as its surroundings so I don't reckon it will help regulate the temp.

-Eva