Setting up a tank with a 'starter'

I know someone trying to set up a four foot tank ready for an axolotl (for one of my babies actually). He has used this product to 'speed up' the cycling process.......

http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276&cid=3582

Does anyone know if this is actually unsafe for axolotls?

The thing that worries me is he said he has a very high nitrate reading, which confused me because nitrate is the final product of the cycling process and I know he hasn't been cycling the tank long. He also said he put ammonia into the tank, I'm not sure if nitrates and ammonia are part of this 'safe-start' product he used.

I have advised he starts again with fresh water and cycles the tank the 'natural' way, but in the long run it's up to him.

I just wondered if this product will actually harm the axolotl?

Thanks, Kerry.

It isn't really harmful, but it is rubbish. Any bacteria in that bottle would have died weeks ago during the rigors of shipping, production and sitting in a warehouse. If it isn't refrigerated and doesn't have a use by or made on date than it is nothing more than snake oil.

High nitrate may be coming from his water source.

Sorry to play devil's anorak here but I have to say that this product is one of the new generation of starters that actually work - I'm a very cynical fishkeeper and I've tried it!

Others I've tested by JBL and Soll also performed well - this is of course as long as it reaches the end user in good condition. I will not name the 'snake oil' alternatives which still exist!

Despite claims on the packaging, I would not expect any nitrate reduction due to a distinct shortage of the appropriate anoxic conditions in a properly set up aquarium.

In the end, only his water test results will show if it works or not but the end result of an ammonia spike is always going to be a commensurate nitrate peak and as Abrahm says, tapwater levels can be a problem too..

I use these products with some regularity but I still know of one or two people who add urine to the tank and get a 'natural' maturation in a longer time-frame!

* I would add that I do not support the claim on the Tetra packaging that livestock can be added to a new tank immediately!*

Tappers said:

Sorry to play devil's anorak here but I have to say that this product is one of the new generation of starters that actually work - I'm a very cynical fishkeeper and I've tried it!

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I have to agree... Tetra bought out Biospira and this is the new product. I have had excellent results with it as well. The biologist that created BioSpira is Dr. Timothy Hovanec. He has been studying nitifying bacteria for many years and has several papers published on his research for all those that are skeptic and want to research him or his findings. I agree that most of these cycle products are 'snake oil' but, I have found that with Dr. Tims products, I can have a fully cycled tank in 8-10 days.

Hey guys,

I am the person trying to set up a four foot tank ready for an axolotl.

I am not afraid to be called an idiot if i've done something stupid, so please - criticise away. I'd rather know if i'm wasting my time or doing something that might harm a living creature.

Here are the steps I have taken so far:

1. Cleaned 4ft x 1ft tank with water and sponge.
2. Filled the tank with about 10 inches of water and an inch of washed silver sand.
3. Added a Fluval 2+ filter and turned on.
4. Left the tank for 2 days to dechlorinate.
5. Added a half dose of Tetra AquaSafe to ensure that there is no chlorine or heavy metal left in the water
6. Added a measured amount of pure ammonia to the water to give any bacteria present something to work on. I read about this here: http://www.algone.com/fishless_cycling.php
7. Added the instructed dose of Tetra SafeStart to begin the cycling.

...and that is what i've done so far. I don't see how adding pure ammonia can become a problem unless the SafeStart formula really does nothing. I don't have access to any friend's fishtanks locally in order to obtain some water or filter media.

Someone suggested asking my local petstore for some water or a filter sample but I am hesitant to because I worry that they may have diseased fish or poorly maintained tanks. Call me paranoid but I want to be sure that if any medical problems do occur in my tank, I want to have kept tabs on where they could have been introduced.

So, what do you think guys? Anything I could do better, or shouldn't have done?

From what you've wrote it looks like you are doing pretty well.
I'm pretty new as well so I'm not sure but i think fill the tank as much as possible so that the ammonia and nitrite levels aren't as high.

Don't clean tank much because this kills the bacteria. If you are going to clean things clean them in the water they are already in. When doing water changes use dechlorinator or let water sit for couple of days before putting it in the tank.
Other than that it seems you are going well.
Also i would recommend buy a good testing kit with Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrate and pH testing in it.
Mitch.

Thanks for your help and advice everyone. Ben, it looks like I was being over-cautious and you are on the right track! Sorry for doubting you! Hope those levels settle down soon, Kerry.

sorry to hyjack this thread but I saw some stuff, a liquid, and I can't remember its name, it claims to remove ammonia in all its forms. I didn't buy it because I am stingy but does anyone know anything about this stuff

Hi Shelly,

I think its ammolock. As mentioned it merely converts ammonia to ammonium (less toxic but still toxic). It definitely does not replace regular water change.

Cheers

Kerry1968 said:

I know someone trying to set up a four foot tank ready for an axolotl (for one of my babies actually). He has used this product to 'speed up' the cycling process.......

http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/productdetail.aspx?id=1276&cid=3582

Does anyone know if this is actually unsafe for axolotls?

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I forgot to mention in my other post... I don't know if there will be any adverse side effects long term but, I do have 3 juvie(4 month old) axolotl's that are in a tank that was started with this product. They have been in the tank for about 5 weeks and so far, all is well.

Kerry1968 said:

The thing that worries me is he said he has a very high nitrate reading, which confused me because nitrate is the final product of the cycling process and I know he hasn't been cycling the tank long. He also said he put ammonia into the tank, I'm not sure if nitrates and ammonia are part of this 'safe-start' product he used.

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The product itself doesn't contain ammonia but it does need an ammonia source to feed the bacteria... and for the product to work. I typically use a few mollies from one of my other tanks as an ammonia source. I've never tested for nitrates until I see the ammonia come down. I may do that on the next tank that I'm getting ready to start up. Based on my own results, if his tank has been set up for a week to 10 days, and ammonia reading is back to zero, the nitrates may be because the tank is cycled.

Kerry1968 said:

Thanks for your help and advice everyone. Ben, it looks like I was being over-cautious and you are on the right track! Sorry for doubting you! Hope those levels settle down soon, Kerry.

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No worries! Can't be too careful!

I've changed out 20% of the water with some fresh and my wierdy nitrate problem seems to have gone away. I suppose I could have had a false reading, although I bought the API Master kit for Fresh water. I was recommended it by Kerry and i've seen it recommended elsewhere.

There has been a dip in the ammonia, which is interesting - seems like it was being converted too quickly? Perhaps it's because there is nothing in the tank but sand and water.

If I were you Ben, I would keep going with the instructions you've been following on the Tetra starter. Perhaps your tank is already cycled if the ammonia is dropping, or at least on it's way. Just keep an eye on those levels and see if it the ammonia keeps decreasing.

I just had a thought, have you literally got nothing in there other than sand? Perhaps you should put some other things in the for the bacteria to cling to. As far as I know, the more surfaces for the bacteria, the better. I know you said you were getting caves and silk plants for the axie, if you have them, put them in too. I'm not sure if I'm on the right track with this, so someone will jump in I'm sure, if I'm not!