Tiger hibernating?

trincan · Dec 1, 2007

I am keeping my house at about 70 degrees (according to my thermostat, but it's old and drafty and cooler in some places than in others).
My tiger has been underground much of the time (in coco fiber kept moist)...I actually dug him up three weeks ago to make sure he is okay. I won't do that again because I feel this will upset him. I have put crickets in the enclosure, and when I tap on the screen with a worm, like I usually do, he doesn't come out anymore. He ALWAYS does, he is almost "conditioned", so to speak. Should I keep putting food in there? Most of the crickets are still in the cage. There are lots of hiding places, and this is pretty unusual behaviour. He is usually under his water bowl or in his cave, or under the sphagnum. The only thing I can think of is his biological clock wanting to hibernate. I am also throwing him around loosely-I have no idea if it is a male or female...he/she is a mean little buggar and snaps at anything that moves. I really don't want to be bitten, and when I made the boyfreind pick him up the sal lunged at him and he said NEVER AGAIN! Anyway, what is going on with my Tiger? anyone know?

John · Dec 1, 2007

Firstly, tiger salamanders can't "bite" you - they have teeth like sandpaper, for making sure slippery things like earthworms can't escape. If one bites you it feels like sandpaper and there is in no way a sense of anything beyond "touch" - there is no pain or anything like it. In fact I find that if I let tigers get my finger for the first few months post metamorphosis, they eventually figure out that it's not worth lunging at (it'll still get their attention though). It's quite funny too to lift your finger up with a large salamander dangling from it.

My tigers spend 75% of their time in the soil in their vivarium. This is normal - they are members of the family known as mole salamanders. You need to establish if the salamander is eating _anything_ and if it's healthy (nice weight, looks good, etc). And for goodness' sake don't be afraid of him lunging at you

.

Daniel · Dec 1, 2007

I can't give you much advice on your tiger, because mine are hungry all the time (although it's rather cool in their tank right now - about 10°C).

But I have to add something to the crickets: I've seen some badly infected wounds caused by crickets on salamanders so you should watch them carefully. The crickets will have to feed on something and if they do not find anything more suitable they will try to nibble on your tiger sal.
That's why I only feed crickets with a tweezer and won't let them run loose in the tank.

aivy06 · Dec 2, 2007

John is right, it really does not hurt at all when they happen to catch your finger. It definately startled me the first few times Sharktail caught my finger, I think it bothered him too judging by how fast he was moving around the cage afterwards. It is also pretty normal, I think, for it to lunge at anything that moves. Sharktail lunges at things all the time, even if it is just someone walking past his tank.

trincan · Dec 3, 2007

The sal eats and eats and eats, and then eats some more. Very good weight, I am posting a picture...has grown a lot in recent months. I have never had uneaten food left in the tank. I know they are a mole salamander, and he does usually stay in the coco fibre during the day, and comes out at night. It had never been underground this long. I saw him today, about 6pm, and he was poking his head out of a hole. I threw new crickets in, and it brought him out of his hiding spot. I think by his hunting the crickets on his own is better than tweezer feeding, I only throw in one at a time, and don't throw in anymore when he gets lazy and stops chasing them.
Do tigers hibernate in captivity? If the temperature is right? What about warm heated households? (not too warm-I keep it about 70)

And as for the biting, I am just afraid of reacting to the surprise...I am bad with surprises. I know they do not have teeth, and I wouldn't be hurt, but I wouldn't want to shake the little buggar off and hurt it!
Thanks everyone, hope you like the picture!

Jan · Dec 11, 2007

trincan said:
The sal eats and eats and eats, and then eats some more. Very good weight, I am posting a picture...has grown a lot in recent months. I have never had uneaten food left in the tank. I know they are a mole salamander, and he does usually stay in the coco fibre during the day, and comes out at night. It had never been underground this long. I saw him today, about 6pm, and he was poking his head out of a hole. I threw new crickets in, and it brought him out of his hiding spot. I think by his hunting the crickets on his own is better than tweezer feeding, I only throw in one at a time, and don't throw in anymore when he gets lazy and stops chasing them.
Do tigers hibernate in captivity? If the temperature is right? What about warm heated households? (not too warm-I keep it about 70)

And as for the biting, I am just afraid of reacting to the surprise...I am bad with surprises. I know they do not have teeth, and I wouldn't be hurt, but I wouldn't want to shake the little buggar off and hurt it!
Thanks everyone, hope you like the picture!

Hi Trincan,
No tigers do not hibernate, in the wild or captivity. Temps of 70F are fine - lower temps are well tolerated but higher temps >76F for prolonged periods of time are not. In your first post, I noticed you mentioned sphagnum. You may or may not be aware, but sphagnum can be problematic as a substrate. It tends to be acidic (sphagnum peat pH of 3-4) and can produce ion exchange and electrolyte imbalance problems in the salamander leading to morbidity and potential mortality. Peat moss has similar problems. This could potentially be a source of your animal's change in behavior if you are in fact using sphagnum.

You may want consider not using sphagnum or testing the pH of the product you are using.

trincan · Dec 12, 2007

the sphagnum is not really the substrate, there is just a very small amount behind a hidey for "atmosphere"...i guess decoration really, it does not really serve a purpose. Do you think it is a good idea to take it ALL out? probably only a 1/4 cup sized ball in there.
let me know, and thank you Jan.

Jan · Dec 12, 2007

trincan said:
the sphagnum is not really the substrate, there is just a very small amount behind a hidey for "atmosphere"...i guess decoration really, it does not really serve a purpose. Do you think it is a good idea to take it ALL out? probably only a 1/4 cup sized ball in there.
let me know, and thank you Jan.

One could speculate that a small amount wouldn't be an issue. Potentially, however, if you mist the sphagnum, degredation could leach H+ ions into the substrate...and if substrate is not changed frequently, or the viv is small, etc.,....could it set up an issue? The potential (although probably reaching) would be there.

I guess, that I would err on the side of being conservative and remove it. There would be no way to know its influence unless you actually did a pH test. Since your animal's behavior has changed, IMO, I would eliminate as many factors as possible.

drummajor08 · Dec 14, 2007

moss in the substrate

This got me thinking. As soon as I put moss in my tiger's substrate, one didn't want to eat all of sudden. That was almost seven months ago. He's still living, but only takes one bite of fish at a time. One died yesterday (of a different cause, I believe), and I completely changed that substrate. I guess we'll see how this works out...

Jan · Dec 14, 2007

drummajor08 said:
This got me thinking. As soon as I put moss in my tiger's substrate, one didn't want to eat all of sudden. That was almost seven months ago. He's still living, but only takes one bite of fish at a time. One died yesterday (of a different cause, I believe), and I completely changed that substrate. I guess we'll see how this works out...

Hi Haley,
What are you feeding besides bites of fish? Fish aren't nutritionally sound for salamanders. If you are not feeding earthworms or pieces of nightcrawlers, I would definitely try these - they are optimal food for sals. You may also want to try crickets (dusted with a vitamin and calcium powder) and waxworms. Waxworms especially if your sal is thin from not eating (these are high in fat and ordinarily only used for treats if used at all). If he truly hasn't hardly eaten in 7 months, start slow with these foods - he is not used to eating. Sals are predators which are attracted to live foods.

I see you are new to the forum. If you haven't seen this informational sheet on tigers yet, it would be worth a read:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Ambystoma/A_tigrinum.shtml

Please feel free to ask questions you may have. There are alot of knowledgeable people on this forum that are very willing share information and experiences.

sammy4tbts · Mar 1, 2008

Similar Experience

I was away for two weeks over the Christmas/New Year holiday and had a housesitter that ended up causing me great concern in several ways. One thing was that I didn't see my tiger for almost two months. I thought he/she was dead because it had never stayed burrowed for more than a week. There was no sign of it (what pronoun do we use?). Water bowl was clean, no little head popping up. Nothing. My house is usually quite cold (40s-60s, depending on sun) because I can't afford the propane, but this is the fourth winter with my tiger and s/he has always been fine. The tank is in a western exposed window and gets quite warm when the sun shines. I use a 60 watt light bulb over the tank on cloudy days and after dark. Anyway, I started to assume s/he was dead and I sad/angry about the situation. Luckily, I didn't dump the tank out into the compost heap. Decided to pick up the tank to see if there was any sign of Sammy (hey, guess I could use the proper name instead of worrying about a pronoun!) on the bottom. Guess who I saw, complete with throat moving in & out? Sammy! Alive! He (I do usually call him a he, though who knows) stayed under the coconut stuff for quite a while longer, but was in different positions when I'd pick up the tank to look. Finally he came out, ate some crickets, and had a long soak. He looked fine, chubby as ever and none the worse for wear. I have no idea why he did that, but it really did worry me. Any ideas?

Jan · Mar 2, 2008

sammy4tbts said:
I was away for two weeks over the Christmas/New Year holiday and had a housesitter that ended up causing me great concern in several ways. One thing was that I didn't see my tiger for almost two months. I thought he/she was dead because it had never stayed burrowed for more than a week. There was no sign of it (what pronoun do we use?). Water bowl was clean, no little head popping up. Nothing. My house is usually quite cold (40s-60s, depending on sun) because I can't afford the propane, but this is the fourth winter with my tiger and s/he has always been fine. The tank is in a western exposed window and gets quite warm when the sun shines. I use a 60 watt light bulb over the tank on cloudy days and after dark. Anyway, I started to assume s/he was dead and I sad/angry about the situation. Luckily, I didn't dump the tank out into the compost heap. Decided to pick up the tank to see if there was any sign of Sammy (hey, guess I could use the proper name instead of worrying about a pronoun!) on the bottom. Guess who I saw, complete with throat moving in & out? Sammy! Alive! He (I do usually call him a he, though who knows) stayed under the coconut stuff for quite a while longer, but was in different positions when I'd pick up the tank to look. Finally he came out, ate some crickets, and had a long soak. He looked fine, chubby as ever and none the worse for wear. I have no idea why he did that, but it really did worry me. Any ideas?

One idea - he was trying to keep cool. You state:

"The tank is in a western exposed window and gets quite warm when the sun shines. I use a 60 watt light bulb over the tank on cloudy days and after dark."

Tigers' enclosures should not be in direct sunlight nor should a light bulb be used - heat and light are not needed and can be harmful. These animals are nocturnal so at night, especially, light is not desirable. Best temperatures are less than 72 degrees F. They can easily tolerate temps of 50-60 degrees F.

tupinambis · Mar 2, 2008

As an aside, amphibians don't truly hibernate. They do retreat for the winter and dig down into the substrate, but they do not assume a dormant state when doing so. Any slowing down is typically no more than temperature effect. However, they do aestivate, which is shutting down in response to heat and/or water stress. Chances are, what is happening in these cases is your salamanders are drying out and thereby shutting down for protective measure.

sammy4tbts · Mar 2, 2008

Thanks, Jan.

This was during a period of unusually cold weather in this area, temps getting below zero and staying below freezing during the day. Cloudy most of the time, lots of snow. Thermostat set as low as possible, around 50.Tank has been near the same location for almost four years. Afternoon sun, when it is shining, comes in from around 1:00-3:00 before if gets obstructed by trees, outbuilding, and foothills. I don't know if the housesitter fed him at all; she acted very squeamish at the idea of both dealing with crickets and the salamander itself. Don't know if she opened/closed the curtains at the appropriate times or if she turned the light on for him and the crickets after dark. Heck, she didn't even take proper care of my dog and let my cat stay outside and it pretty much went wild. Took me about a week to get the cat to come back in overnight. So it was a very bad experience all around. Whatever the reason was that Sammy was burrowed under for so long, he's fine now and seems as happy as he was before I went away. I mainly posted this experience to relate to the OP who was worried about her tiger.

flip13 · May 13, 2008

My tiger hides for long periods of time. During the winter and cool months he is constantly out. When it starts to get warm out he will go as deep as possible (about 6-8 in.) He will hide for a month at a time before he comes out to fill up on crickets, mealworms and pinkys. Watching him i am thinking it is not quite hibernation as much as him just trying to keep cool.

I bought him at a local pet store and they have not gotten any since and i cannot find them anywhere. Dose anyone know of any online stores where i may be able to find a healthy tiger? I live in Chattanooga Tn. area.

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