Mesotriton alpestris renamed.

Azhael

Azhael

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I´ve been discussing with a guy from my university the whole day about newts and apparently M.alpestris is having another change in it´s name. Spanish herpethologists had brought the name Mesotriton back, but apparently they had forgotten there was a previous name for alpestris, before it was put with Triturus by....some idiot....
So from now on it´s going to be renamed by consensus, Ichthyosaura alpestris. Awful name if you ask me...plus i´m getting tired of so many changes... The official change should be done soon, for now Mesotriton is still the cientific name, but the change to Ichthyosaura is definitive...or so it seems...honestly you never know with these things....
 
Very interesting. I like the name Ichthyosaura, but it sounds like it should be a dinosaur. Instead it is being (re)applied to a very sweet little newt.:rolleyes:
 
So Mesotriton alpestris will become Ichthyosaura alpestris? Moving from a monotypic genus to another? Seems like quite a bit of confusion for very little gain.

Though I do find the idea of this newt being a "fish lizard" quite amusing.
 
So, is this change being made across the scientific community or just in Spain? I'm not too familiar with the naming process in science aside from the fact that there are names.
 
As far as I know binomial names like Ichthyosaura alpestris are recognized by an international body of scientists and then become the name of the species to science the world over. Any place in the world will understand that scientific name so as to give scientists common ground instead of having to learn a hundred synonyms for every animal they study.
 
This sounds like poppycock to me. I hesitate to ask what they are smoking in Spain...
 
May I ask why there are so many changes in names for animals? Necturus for example, is confusing. I don't see the point to changing around the names hundreds of times, does it really change what the animal is? I know the names usually have to do with the person who decribed them, their location, etc. But why so many changes? I don't think I'll ever get my head around taxonomy.
 
i_love_necturus said:
May I ask why there are so many changes in names for animals? Necturus for example, is confusing. I don't see the point to changing around the names hundreds of times, does it really change what the animal is? I know the names usually have to do with the person who decribed them, their location, etc. But why so many changes? I don't think I'll ever get my head around taxonomy.
Click to expand...

Taxonomy is more than just a name, as reclassifying an animal is following a hypothesis as to the animal's evolutionary relationship. This is why animals are elevated from subspecies, or placed in their own genera, or whatever. Now that genetic testing is becoming commonplace, there have been a number of taxonomic revisions in certain genera.

Although I have to admit that I find the breaking of certain genera into smaller ones kind of baffling, unless they're that distant from each other.
 
mmm, yes,,
Triturus vulgaris into lisotriton vulgaris, thats logical if you look at the animals, but its just getting silly now..
 
The Triturus genus was a senseless mess...Mesotriton and Lissotriton were clearly different genuses. The thing is M.alpestris was named Ichthyosaura alpestris long ago, before some stupid put them in the genus Triturus. And since antiquity prevails, the name once it´s been separated into it´s own genus had to be the original one, Ichthyosaura. It makes a lot of sense too me....it´s just that the name sounds....jurassic, and all these changes are starting to be annoying. What´s obvious and should be taken into account is that alpestris has nothing to do with Triturus.


Also on a different note, this guy told me L.boscai is being split into two different species, and the ones that remains as boscai, is also going to be divided into two subespecies...This is mindblowing....why can´t they call them all boscai....
 
I don't think this is for real.
 
Is there any credible resource that can confirm this change? I'm not trying to call anyone a liar here, i'm just wondering if there is a way to confirm the validity of this name change... since John is in complete disbelief.
 
Well....no....there´s no official document or anything....as i said this was from a talk with a guy from my class. This guy works in the department of zoology with a few herpethologists. These happen to be the ones responsible (or associated to) for a lot of recent changes in european urodeles and reptiles. Some of them are pretty well known, at least in spain and europe (García-Paris, Lizana). I know i didn´t bring any evidence or article explaining the situation....but well...if you check the nomenclature for the species you´ll find Ichthyosaura was a previous name for it as a monotypic genus. For a simple rule of antiquity mesotriton is not valid. I guess in a close future the change will be made officially...for now it´s just a discussion. Anyway...it´s up to you, the animal will keep being as gorgeaus as always no matter the name.

And yes, the name would be accepted worldwide...that´s the point for cientific nomenclature.
 
What a cute name. Current fury in taxonomy has no limits. It seems.
Looking forward tyranosaurus montandoni.
 
That is sure going to take some time to get used to.

I thought the killifish people were the only ones who had to deal with this circus!
 
origin of Ichthyosaura explained

The English translation of Günter's taxonomy article is now online:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Salamanderland_taxonomy.shtml
This will explain why the name "Mesotriton" was assigned incorrectly, and may be changed yet again. Personally, I'm tempted to go back to calling all of them "Triturus".
 
i agree Dawn..i've been keeping newts 30 years and to me its still a bleeding Alpine newt.
 
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