Homage to Plastic Tubs

Many keepers go to lengths to make their vivaria as complex and decorative as they can. I’ve never been a fan of substrates, ornaments and too much technology, I like to keep thing as simple as possible because it saves me time and gives more control over the animal’s environment. I’m a big fan of plastic containers because they’re light, cheap and easy to modify. I’m always amazed at the number of posts where an animals well being is compromised because the keeper can’t afford to buy a new glass tank…

Much of it obviously comes down to personal preference and the positioning of your newt/sal in the house – who want’s to look at a plastic tub in the living room? But it’s always good to remember how easy these great creatures can be housed.

A shrine to newts in tubs.


An aquatic tub with plastic plants and floating cork


A simple tub for rearing larvae - water and a handful of pond weed


Two different tubs containing Desmognathus. One with rocks, the other with moss and logs.

Great set-up pics Mark! Always great to see how others are "gettin it done". I use plastic tubs for my tylototritons (mainly because I haven't seen a aquarium based set-up that would permit year round use and opportunity for breeding) and my Triturus when they're on land. I stack mine and put a good size rock on top to prevent escapes. Seeing that you keep Desmogs, which are smaller than what I'm working with, have you had any escape issues? I had one T. carnifex get away for a few weeks but found in again when the basement flooded, none the worse for wear. That stopped when I put heavier top rocks on the lids. I see your containers have lock clips on the short side, but can a small newt/salamander slip through a flex in the long side?

Super, Mark, thanks for sharing! I'm particularly inspired by your Desmog setups. I need to do something similar to this for my Hynobius. Which one would you say you prefer (moss or rocks)? How (and how often) do you clean them? And what foods do you feed them? I find that the more complex the setup (rocks, moss, etc), the more limited I am in what kind of food I can use.

very nice! definitely would love to see more pics.

i love em, how do you get the tubes in for your filtration(witch i asume is an airstone) did you drill a whole and then patch it up with silicone?

Brian, I’ve never had an escapee from a tub with a clip lid. They don’t have much flex in the middle and there’s a deep mounting groove running around the edge. I too used to place heavy objects on top but since using these I haven’t had to. The clips are also handy because you can easily spot a tub that hasn’t got it’s lid on properly.

Jen, I have a number of semi-aquatic stream species (Desmogs, Calotriton, Eurycea etc) which all live in similar set-ups. The choice between rocks or moss/logs really depends on the character of the species kept. The Desmognathus in the rock set-up are small and nervous. I tried them with moss and they just buried themselves in it and I lost the ability to monitor or hand feed them. In the rock set-up they have lots of hides but I can still dangle worms in front of them or lift a rock to check on them. The species in the log/moss set-up is much larger and bolder. They tend to hunker down under logs and not bury themselves in the moss. The Hynobius set-ups I’ve seen have been 50/50 land/water with moss on the land and simple hides.

Each tub has an air line going into it through a small hole, no need for silicone Dane. For animals that like a bit of water movement I place a sloping rock over the air outlet. Like this:
Spot the Calotriton if you can…

This makes the bubbles travel horizontally for a short distance and creates quite a bit of flow. I tried powerheads and filters but they generate too much heat for small enclosures.

As for cleaning the regime is very simple. Once a week I do partial water changes on aquatic tubs and full water changes on semi-aquatic tubs (because the water volume is so small) . I also have spare tubs which get used when I want to start over from scratch. I’m hoping to rig up a system that allows me to siphon all the tanks in one go which will save me a lot of time.

I was wondering about this...so in the long run you think your newts/sals are just as healthy for being in plastic tubs? They say that people shouldn't drink out of water bottles because chemicals leach out of the containers into the water, so I was reticent about using plastic tubs for my larvae (and after they morph, I'll need to separate them into more containers). Thanks

I´m not 100% sure...but i think i heard it´s only PVC and a few other polymers. As far as i know bottles are no longer made of PVC at least where i live and i´m not sure if plastic boxes are under those regulations. Guess they are not. As long as they are not PVC they should be fine.

Mark,
Those are very nice, practical setups that you have. I use plastic containers for quarantine and for housing juveniles. I still prefer glass aquaria for most of my adults however. I suppose that it is a matter of taste but I enjoy just sitting and watching the animals at times.
Chip

azhael said:

I´m not 100% sure...but i think i heard it´s only PVC and a few other polymers. As far as i know bottles are no longer made of PVC at least where i live and i´m not sure if plastic boxes are under those regulations. Guess they are not. As long as they are not PVC they should be fine.

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I don't think this information is correct. From what I've read, the worst plastic is polycarbonate (the hard completely-clear plastic), but other types, including PVC, have various levels of chemicals that leach out.

That said, I still use plastic tubs for newts. There are clearly no immediate negative effects, but I do worry a bit about long-term reproductive issues, particularly for larvae raised in them, and particularly for brand new tubs. I figure that the tubs I've been using for a while have probably finished leaching out any high levels of chemicals they had initially.

azhael said:

I´m not 100% sure...but i think i heard it´s only PVC and a few other polymers. As far as i know bottles are no longer made of PVC at least where i live and i´m not sure if plastic boxes are under those regulations. Guess they are not. As long as they are not PVC they should be fine.

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Yeah, your information source has given you some bad information here. Most PVC, once it has been polymerized, is completely inert and is quite safe. This includes the pipes sometimes used as hides. The actual process that makes PVC is horrible for the environment on the other hand.

Some PVC and some other plastics contain plasticizers, compounds that do no polymerize (turn into plastic) and grant certain structural properties to the plastic, usually a decreased or increased rigidity. Since these compounds are not integral to the polymers that form the plastic they too may also leach out. Some plasticizers are banned in Europe in the use of some items like pacifiers for babies.

Polycarbonate, like that used in Nalgene bottles, is made with bisphenol A which may not completely polymerize and will leach out of the finished plastic. This is an estrogen mimicking compound and may have effects on animals, including humans.

I believe most tubs are made from LDPE or HDPE (low or high density polyethylene) which I believe is safe. With the name of the plastic being used (in the little triangle on the bottom) you can usually surf the internet and come up with a few details.

:S sorry....that´s what the "im not 100%" thing was for...i was just recalling some discussion here in spain some years ago when PVC was discarded as a material for making water bottles. I didn´t know that much about polymers...i was just pointing out that there have been problems with it...and well....i think that is true...

I vaguely remember reading an article which suggested that certain “food safe” plastic containers housing lab mice were responsible for damaging their fertility. I don’t know enough about plastics to understand the risks or health implications for amphibians (or any animal). Hopefully the water change routine I have is enough to reduce exposure to anything that leaches out. I’ve kept amphibians in plastic containers for the best part of 15 years and not noticed any apparent issues.

I’ve started work on the prototype for the “easy- siphon” ™ system . Each tub will have a siphon tube built in and each down tube will have a valve/switch built in about half-way. Above the valve is enough water to start the siphon action when the valve is opened. Simply flick the switch and let gravity do the hard work.
Components:

Installed in the tub:

Valve half-way along tube:

If anyone has tried this before and has any tips let me know. I’m looking for better quality switches/valves. I’m a bit worried about leaks with the cheapo plastic components I have.

snip Polycarbonate, like that used in Nalgene bottles, is made with bisphenol A which may not completely polymerize and will leach out of the finished plastic. This is an estrogen mimicking compound and may have effects on animals, including humans."endsnip

Actually, even if the bisphenol A completely polymerizies the resulting polycarbonate readily decomposes releasing bisphenol A again into any moist interface resulting in contamination. The amount that is released at even room temperature can cause issues with rodents kept in the containers. However degredation can occur under a number of conditions but if I remember correctly off hand it really begins to take off at about 70 C. Its decomposition is also sped up by exposure to disinfectants like bleach.

There have been links to tadpole developmental disruptions via some of the softeners used in polyethylene containers but in general polyethylene and polypropylene containers appear to be safe.

With the easy out siphon, you will have to keep an eye on the airline tubing as it gets rigid and slips off the fittings after awhile. There are similar sized tubes used in ozonation systems that do not leach and do not get hard. I am not sure that the tubing used in misting systems is safe.

Another item you may want to consider are small hose clamps to secure the tubing to the connections (you can see one type of clamp here http://www.pro-products.com/promistaccessories.html )

Ed

Pretty snazzy, Mark, especially that built-in siphon.

I really love the easy siphon system! In which kind of stores do you find those materials?

coendeurloo said:

I really love the easy siphon system! In which kind of stores do you find those materials?

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I would really like this advise as well!
Thanks alot and you do give great advise!

Also i was woundering if how axis would react being housed in this way?

also where could you perchuse them metal shelf's?

I still haven’t found the ideal components. I’m going to take Ed’s advice and look into misting system components, however I’m also going to visit a few of the local hydroponics stores as they seem to have a good range of pipe system parts (that’s where the black elbow joint comes from). Hydroponics shops are far cheaper than specialist dartfrog hobby shops.

The parts above come from a mixture of - aquatic shop for the tubing, hydroponics shop for the elbow and a brewers siphon kit for the down tube and stop tap/valve. Once I’ve found a combination of quality parts that works I’ll post the details.

The metal racks are from Ikea!

Awsome also were do you find such perfect size tubs?

I like the built in siphon, great idea. When you go to the hydroponic shop ,get some grommits they
will help hold the elbow in place.But the hole may have to be a little bigger to allow for clearance.
:rolleyes